Hi
I seems to me, that there are a lot of cases where Nucleus+ are unresponsive after power outage.
Would that be the same with any NUC/ROCK? What would be the typical problems after outage? Is it always the m.2 SSD? Anything that can be done proaktive? Or as fallback?
Have a nice week
Torben
PS: Buying an UPS Power Supply would not be an option for me.
I’ve read the same posts and no idea why it’s happening. Unless its related to the specific M.2 SSD used.
I’ve had a NUC/Rock for almost 4 years and it has survived a few power outages without issue but I did add a UPS system just is case.
Sorry that’s not an option for you. And a UPS can run out of power if you’re not around when it happens.
An option for me that may have already averted damage from some recent short circuit power outages here at the house.
After that I needed a new router. However, the database of my UPS protected NUC is still intact.
Some additional notes:
A Roon Nucleus is basicly an Intel NUC, but in a different fanless case. ROCK OS on a NUC server uses the same software, apart from some changes concerning heat management in the Nucleus. Motherboard and internal parts are exactly the same, a M.2 SSD plus one or two DDR4 SO-DIMM RAM sticks.
Not at all. Nearly all electronic components can be destroyed by overvoltage.
The Database on the m.2 SSD can get corrupted, unnoticed at first, but over time causing more and more problems. There are many posts about it here in the community.
(Also RAM sticks can go bad as well.)
As for heat development of m2 SSDs at maximum performance as well as the wear due to constant operation, here is an article if you are interested, about thermal throttling and its effects on SSDs and about database corruption.
Corrupted sectors can make it impossible to access files if an error occurs, thus causing difficulties reading data, resulting in a vicious circle of sluggish performance and more overheating.
As to why these incidents seem to be increasing, I don’t want to speculate.
Personally, I have a second NUC core as a backup, that I update regularly, just in case.
Yes, kind of maybe 
A power outage is not like flipping a switch. It can first start with a serious low voltage situation. Or it could be a single phase goes out causing various issues including the 50/60Hz AC to no long be 50/60 Hz.
The cheap, yes cheap, power supplies in NuCs are not really designed to handle these situations. They are simply designed not to catch fire in these situations and the cheapest way to do that is just fail.
Then you have some wonkyness when power comes back on. No one turns their heat or AC or refrigerators off after a power outage so 10s or maybe 100’s of thousands of homes create a massive motor surge when the power comes back. That’s not nice to PCs.
The easy answer is a UPS. Sacrifice the UPS and save the PC. Even a cheap desktop APC or CyberPower UPS can prevent these things from destroying your PC.
OK, that’s just the power reason. The other thing going on is that PCs fail at boot. That’s not some myth that’s fact. Steady power and temp is the most reliable way to run a PC. Turning it off, letting it cool, and then surging it back on and filling it with angry pixies while cold… well… that’s generally when things will fail if it was time.
So… combine the nasty things that happen with a power outage plus the issue of this being the first time these “servers” have cooled and been flooded with power in who knows how long and things go BOOM.
That’s my opinion anyway. Go gets you a UPS.
Why?
That was my first internal response as well. When you run Roon you are essentially running a database server that holds the database in RAM. Forget hardware issues. Any power failure can corrupt the database.
A UPS, for ROCK, buys you time to shut down the server gracefully. If you run another OS, you can even have the UPS shutdown the server before it’s power runs out. And, yes, this was one of my requests/suggestions in the ROCK 2.0 thread.
Because of ARC, having the ability to do functions remotely with the server ( shut down, turn on, and reboot remotely, etc) is becoming more of an issue to users.
I would be VERY difficult for me to find place for a another unit near my NUC/ROON. And it would have to a fanless UPS (silent).
Yes - but that won’t help me if I am not at home.
I do have surge protection all over the place - but that won’t help.
Absolutely - when I am not home my NUC/ROCK don’t have to be on all the time. It just need to be on when I want to listen to music.
Torben
What would be you suggest? Below a picture of my NUC/ROCK’s SMPS.
The UPS has to be silent.
Torben
Edited the thread title to more accurately reflect where this discussion is heading and actually makes sense.
Something like this (a European 240V analog, of course)?
No fans or anything, and honestly I would not even think about running a 24/7 computer holding any kind of database without one…
I do wonder if some kind of a hack could be designed to gracefully shut down ROCK if power goes out (should be basic functionality, really). If running on standard Mac/Win/Linux, or even a NAS, it’s builtin.
It depends if you consider the NuC part of the analog side or the digital side of the playback chain.
Analog, you’re right in that you don’t want a UPS. Maybe something like a Stromtank. Or a whole home surge suppressor just to catch spikes when power comes back.
If you consider the NuC part of your digital playback chain then throw everything you know about analog noise out the window because it’s just not the same thing. Digital “noise” is easy to get rid of with things like network (fiber), USB isolators, galvanically isolated streamers, etc. Or even a combination of all these things. Then, “noise” from the NuC is never gong to make it to the analog side of your playback chain and you can use any UPS you want. It’s the analog side we listen to.
That I already have (the red ones)
No - I am not talking about noise - it just need to be silent (so no fan etc.)
Torben
The only UPS I know of that has a fan are ones that are rated right at 15 or 20 AMP and then the fan comes on only when they are depleting (no utility power) or charging to keep the batteries cool. I have a UPS rated like this and that’s the only time I hear the fans. If the batteries are charged and you’ve got utility power then the UPS is audibly silent.
Desktop UPSs don’t have large enough batteries to run long enough to need a fan.
Hello,
we have some interesting approaches and solutions here.
Personally, I have never lost a device after a power failure. NAS, router, PC, Nucleus, etc. continued to run without problems. There are often settings in the bios on how the board should behave afterwards (restart, off, etc.)
However, I have my devices on a power strip or linear power supplies on the router itself.
In addition, I exchange my SSD in NAS and PC after a maximum of 4 years (depending on continuous operation). I let the RAM run like this.
But I also have to say that I run my PC / NAS on schedule during my absence during the day.
The question is also what came first, a defect such as e.g. Worn Elco, first defects on the mainboard, memory, SSD or similar, or actually the power failure.
A UPS would also be out of the question for me, in a private household, for a Media PC.
Exactly.
Any home or even basic office UPS is not going to have a fan. So except for some startup beep indicators and alarm warnings, all of them are silent.
This has been one of my issues on ROCK for … years.
I like having a large cyber power ups (2) gives me a reserved power supply for led lights. Keeps my cable modem and wireless router running at least 12 hours. Comes in handy time to time.
I use a Dynamix Defender 1600 (fanless), it provides about an hour of backup, it also smooths any fluctuations in supply voltage. Connected to it are: fibre modem, wifi router and Nuc. It has separate spike protection outlets, which have Dac and Roon computer connected. So in the event of a power cut basic infrastructure is maintained (ie internet access for laptops and Roon arc, after that the generator needs to be fired up. Power today has been ok so far, we are on the edge of cyclone Gabrielle, biblical rainfall outside at the moment.
