URGENT: I'm still getting nonstop "Tracks Not Available from Tidal" Errors! Please Help [Roon Investigating]

Support
146

Thanks Jeff for all your help… this thread is so long, and I had other posts also, but I mentioned my other device issues also. I have a MacBook Pro 2017 running macOS Ventura, Roon 2.0 constantly quits on that also. I wasted days on troubleshooting that issue also. I’m just exhausted from it all. Need to move on and move away. I can be obsessive about my music and wanting things to be "just "right… but it’s affecting my work and family life now also… my music plays perfectly with the native TIDAL app and the BluOS Controller app… all the multi-room grouping features all work perfectly, as they used to with Roon… the granular volume balancing control within groups is all there with BluOS… all I will be missing is the nicer, more elegant Roon GUI and all the in depth meta info on all the tracks and albums… I will just have to live with it. Maybe Roon 3.0 will be the one for me.

Thanks again to all.

3 Likes
147

Cheers SandsOfArrakis for all your help and concern. It was and is, very much appreciated.

Anthony

1 Like
148

Hi @Anthony_McCarthy,

I understand you’re at your wit’s end. However, the team has identified the issue on your original Core machine - there were no remaining file descriptors available for the operating system, requiring a database vacuum to clear out redundant files in your Roon Database.

If you’d like to give Roon another chance, our QA team already has a copy of your database. We can request they undertake a database vacuum to permanently remove erroneous files and free up file descriptors for the Mac’s OS.

Please respond here if your patience can endure another several days, and I will pass along instructions and get regular, precise progress reports until we can restore Roon to working condition on your device and across your home setup. We’ll be watching for your response.

2 Likes
149

@connor, I lately have seen other user reports with error messages indicating problems with file descriptors. So it would be great if we users could gain some insight into why this is happening, if this is something more likely to happen on one OS than on others and, most importantly, if there is something we as users can do to avoid running into these problems…

1 Like
150

Hey Connor Schake… I appreciate you coming back to me on this and for your fresh offer of help… I would give it one more go… but what does “no remaining file descriptors available for the operating system” exactly mean… ? as I upgraded from that OS (macOS Mojave) to macOS Monterey, and I still couldn’t get ROON 2.0 to run.

Currently, I can’t even get the Roon 2.0 to stay open… it just quits and quits and quits… now this happens when I try and Restore from Backup or if I create a fresh install version… either way it just won’t stay open. I also have a MacBook Pro (macOS Ventura) and I have tried again to install Roon 2.0 on that machine also last night, and it also would not even stay open on my desktop for more than 10-15mins (while adding tracks from my library) before quitting also… it all seems pretty hopeless to me… :frowning:

I would give it one more try… but really… I just don’t understand how two different hardware machines, running two different macOS, have similar issues when I try and restore from backup or just as a clean sign in from scratch.

Regards,
Anthony

151

Here is a pretty good descripton.

@connor While it is great to clean up a database, I thought there were ways to increase the file descriptor limit on MacOS as well.

152

File descriptors as OS resource exist in Linux, too, and I am sure also in Windows. As user I am interested in learning why some users run out of file descriptors and others not, if this is database-size dependent, or if there is anything I can do to avoid running into the problem, short of having to modify my OS standard limits, which is something I feel comfortable doing on Linux, but should really not be something a user should be concerned with.

As mentioned before, I distinctly remember as of late having seen other threads mentioning this problem and this obviously makes me wonder why this is happening.

Edit:

On Linux, the OS limit of open files per process is typically 1024. I just checked, and this is the standard limit configured on Ubuntu Server. It’s easy enough to check for the open files per process, and my Roon server at this time reports 625 open files. So, what would have to go wrong so as to break that limit and run into problems?

1 Like
154

I totally agree Andreas_Philipp1… I’m not very confident about going anywhere near adding code to my Mac Terminal, I have the native TIDAL app and BluOS and they both work flawlessly… and there’s no such things to worry about.

155

Anthony, this is just a configuration and can be changed without problems, both on Mac OS and on Linux. I am sure there must be some changeable value on Windows, too, but I know nothing about Windows. Anyway, what @connor offers you is to run a process on your database which will tidy it up and so avoid that you would have to change anything on your Mac computer. This is a good thing and I would happily and confidently accept that.

What I am after is a better understanding about what is going on here that made your database turn into this ‘untidy’ state in the first place. What should we as users take into account as to avoid running into this problem… And I am awfully sorry having highjacked your support thread, but if not here, these things will never be made clear and more users will likely run into similar problems.

2 Likes
156

Heyyyy… no hijacking going on… you are just adding your tu’pence worth… all good Andreas_Philipp1. I still don’t understand how it keeps quitting on both machines… two different OS… I do have a crazy large TIDAL collection… top 10% of users TIDAL told me… but I dunno how confident I am about that :slight_smile:

1 Like
157

It’s puzzling to me that a database issue has been identified but the problem still exists on a clean install.
Are you sure it was a clean install and that Roon wasn’t seeing the old database after a re-install?

1 Like
158

You could have a point there Placebophile (Jeff)… I have performed so many installs and un-installs and installs again… from backups and from scratch… that I have lost count and I’m totally “puggled from it all” as we say here in Ireland.

To create a clean install, I delete the ROON 2.0 app from my Applications folder, I then go to the ~library folder using the Option GO menu method… I delete ROON, RAAT folder, empty trash and install again… is that correct…? or is there more hidden files to delete…?

159

Puggled! That’s new to me and great.
The other day I heard someone from England say “Sorry if I’ve over egged this pudding” and am concerned that’s what I’m doing here - ie. adding another variable.
But since things already seem bamboozled it might be worth a try?

This is from the Roon page:

image
image1075×502 102 KB

I’d suggest this approach so you don’t lose your old database. But don’t restore from a backup!

I hope this works.

1 Like
160

Tried that Placebophile Jeff… no success at all… TBH… I just think this whole thing is just not going to be possible for me to get working. It’s all messed up. It should be a quick and easy install ‘n’ go!!! :frowning:

Hey Connor Schake
The previous skipping of the tracks issue is no longer even applicable at this stage, as I can’t even get the app to remain stable enough to stay open long enough, to test out if it can play any of my TIDAL music collection. It now quits during my TIDAL collection indexing process. This was happening all last night also on my MacBook Pro running macOS Ventura.

My main Roon Core that I want Roon to run on is running on my MacPro now running macOS Monterey.

Is there a possible fix…?

:frowning:

161

Hi @Anthony_McCarthy, @Andreas_Philipp1, @Placebophile,

Thank you for raising excellent points for the clarity of the thread and broader community. It appears a synopsis of what’s going on might benefit us all:

@Anthony_McCarthy has faced the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, encountering two issues in Roon on two separate MacOS devices. The first is a rare file descriptor loop issue specific to his database. The second is a known bug affecting MacOS installs of Roon and RoonServer.

Reviewing the former: a folder in your Roon database was over-populating with files. This ran your operating system out of handles, crashing the app and crushing overall performance in a worsening cycle. Unfortunately, being tied to your Roon database itself, this issue will recur even on a new device with the same DB. Backups will drag the issue with you - for this reason, our QA team is vacuuming your database to restore functionality. I recognize the strain on your patience has ballooned, and without music, your urgency is completely understandable.

The second problem is this: Roon 2.0 - Crashing on MacOS due to this: .NET ThreadPool Worker” [Roon Investigating]. This Mac OS crash reared its head on your Ventura device before we could vacuum the database and restore functionality on your first install. This is a long-standing issue that the team has raised to senior developers and we are urgently working to resolve. However, it likely won’t affect both of your Mac computers, particularly if they are on different OS releases.

The Roon team fully recognizes no paying subscriber should have to navigate such a thorny road to simple Tidal playback. #support’s goal here is to restore playback to your system while reasonably explaining what went wrong and how to avoid it. So, we’ve raised the priority level of the database vacuum with the team and hope to have a clean copy of your database back to you as soon as possible. I will respond here with at least one-two daily updates in this thread until that occurs - we hope it will be by end of week. The fresh database should work on the Monterrey machine, and will hopefully refresh conditions to avert the known crash as well.

In the meantime, restoring a backup of your Roon database will infect Roon on either machine, since the Backup contains the extraneous files. When we return your database after vacuuming, this will effectively function as a backup. So, in the meantime, a possible workaround is to create an entirely fresh instance of RoonServer on either your MacBook or Mac machine, using Remotes to control playback.

Allow me the afternoon (I’m a few hours behind UTC) to sync with our QA lead and illuminate precisely how the database is filling up with files. In previous cases, a database vacuum has resolved the situation entirely.

Hopefully, these efforts demonstrate some good faith on our part despite the frustrations Roon has brought you in the last two weeks.

5 Likes
162

Thank you @connor, good reply on this thread. I’m looking forward to whatever illumination you can obtain about this problem with spurious database files. Maybe some good comes out of this, if there is any advice that could be given on how to reduce the likelihood of running into this problem.

163

Thank you sooooo much for your comprehensive and detailed reply, and for recognizing the horror show I have been experiencing with all this over the past 4-5 weeks really… as this all started when I tried to get a fresh install of Roon 2.0 to run on my more up to date hardware… that being my MacBookPro 2017, and that failed repeatedly also, probably now that I understand more… due to that over inflated legacy restore database.

I have only ever used Roon GUI got playback… I haven’t a clue how to install and run Roon Server. What needs to be done… ? as of now I have cleared all Roon apps and Roon Library files software off my MacPro running macOS Monterey… I can use remotes for playback no probs… I normally use my iPad Pro 12.9" running iOS 16.3 anyways as my listening experience HIFI is in my living room.

Is there a step-by-step guide to running Roon Server… how do I sign into it… it seems like a very simplistic app…? Before, when I installed it… it never asked me for any credentials…?

Please advise and revert.

Anthony

164

I have Roon Server 2.0 up and running on my MacPro running macOS Monterey right now… all working great so far. Will keep an eye on it… hopefully, it won’t quit like what was happening with Roon 2.0 GUI

Keep me posted about progress with my Roon Database… as I have a 32" 4K screen that I work with in my office… where I work… so having all that glorious GUI fill that 32" is what I love also.

Cheers guys.

Anthony

2 Likes
165

Great to hear @Anthony_McCarthy!

While it seems this information might no longer be needed, RoonServer can be installed simply from here by running the .dmg file: https://download.roonlabs.net/builds/RoonServer.dmg

All you’ll need to do is have a Roon Remote on a second device on the same network: a compatible tablet, phone, or a second computer can run the graphical component of Roon (ie. Roon Remote) without a Core. RoonServer is the brain of the system, but it can run on a computer without the graphical component that may be linked to the crash.

Please keep us posted, and we’ll do the same with the progress on the database vacuum. Cheers and thank you again for your continued patience.

2 Likes
166

Yo Yo all… I’m loving Roon Server. The simplicity of it… I can see if I can get my 3 – 4 years’ worth of Roon Database back, all squeaky clean, shiny and brand new, this is the way to go.

Feeling optimistic… :slight_smile:

2 Likes