Waiting for remote core.... for two weeks

Rugby · September 1, 2022, 8:24pm

Fing is a great little app that can provide the IP numbers of devices on the network.

Ian_Spencer · September 1, 2022, 8:36pm

ipeverywhere · September 1, 2022, 8:42pm

open a web browser and in the address bar go to:
http://192.168.0.13

That should be the Web interface to ROCK based upon everything you’ve posted above. Identify if Roon Core is running which the web interface will tell you.

Ian_Spencer · September 1, 2022, 8:49pm

I’ve done that. The page shows the four elements are all OK. The server is currently plugged directly into the router.

ipeverywhere · September 1, 2022, 8:57pm

Ok, then the MAC can access the Core.

Do you have Roon Remote on the Mac? Can the Mac see the Core?

You have, based on the MAC addresses you provided, a lot of Sky gear on that network. This may be a localized issue between some endpoints and core. For example, wired might be able to see core from 1 switch but wireless can’t.

I kind of lost track… but your Core is plugged into the TP-Link switch (and if you don’t have a TP-Link switch I’ll assume the switch inside the SoTM is manufactured by TP-Link0? What else is plugged into that? Oh, you said router…

Is the Mac plugged into the router or the switch?

I kind of need to really understand what is plugged in where to understand the broadcast topology and then can troubleshoot further. At least that’d be my method to solve this. Others may be way ahead of me already

Ian_Spencer · September 2, 2022, 7:53pm

Yes - the Mac can see the Core now.

It has all worked fine for two years through various fiddlings caused by inadequate internet coverage through the house. The TP Link is a redundant extender that I will now unplug. It was in use before I found the solution of an additional SKY booster. There are also two TV boxes (a Q 2TB and a minibox). The switch is made by SoTM.

The Internet comes in through a sky router which is connected wirelessly to two Sky boxes that serve the two TVs. The boxes act as hubs. The minibox is the internet connection for the streaming system, The Core is connected to the same switch as the minibox. If it would help I could send a diagram.

I think you must be right about subnets. I’ll now try putting the core back where it was and getting rid of the TPLink extender.

Ian_Spencer · September 5, 2022, 2:06pm

Others are not way ahead. I have plugged the core back to its original position and the core is now invisible again to both remotes and the iMac. I have tried changing the switch - no impact.

I attach a screenshot of the core taken when it was attached directly to the router and a diagram of the setup here which might help to explain the topography.

I’ve now been without Roon for nearly three weeks and wondering whether a solution to this is possible. Please help.

j_a_m_i_e · September 5, 2022, 2:29pm

Can you attach a TV or monitor to the HDMI output of the NUC? That way you can see what IP address it is being assigned to the NUC/Rock (if any) in it’s current position on the network, which might help others debug the issue for you.

The fact that the NUC/Core works fine (and can be seen by your iMac and remotes) when plugged into the router directly suggests the unit itself is working fine and the issue is (more than likely) that it is being assigned a different IP address on a different sub-net (or not assigned one at a all) when placed elsewhere on your network. Or that there is some other issue with your wider network.

Various reasons why that night be, one possibility might be that it’s connecting to a differenet WiFi network, or a WiFi extender on a different subset when placed further away from your router. Although the quickest way to find out for sure if to plug a monitor or TV into the NUC and see what it says, otherwise we’re just making speculative guesses in the dark.

I take it you’re using the same cable to connect it your switch as your using to connect it to your router?

Also are you sure that the switch is definitely working — what happens if you also plug the iMac in to that switch? That said, the quickest way to resolve this is to plug a TV or monitor into the NUC, even if that means dragging a TV nearer to it or getting a long ethernet cable so that you can move the NUC nearer to a TV.

Ian_Spencer · September 5, 2022, 2:53pm

Thanks for your suggestion and speculations. I have attached a TV to the NUC - the TV gives the network address of the NUC as 192.168.0.13 which is the same as the address given when it was attached directly to the router.

On your other point, I have no extenders in my system but do have two Sky boosters necessary because my house is very long and quite thin (a converted barn). They seem to work well to create a coherent system that has two other Roon endpoints (a Muso and a Uniti Atom. All worked well for some months until I suddenly lost contact with the core.

I have tried replacing the switch with another switch of inferior quality. It made no difference to the visibility of the core.

Could the difficulty be that the switch is connected to the internet via a wire to the Sky Q minibox, which is in turn connected wirelessly to the router?

Thanks for the help.

WiWavelength · September 5, 2022, 3:11pm

Roon 1.7 (build 571) is 2+ years old. And 100 percent of 107 GB available suggests an unusually small or even no database. Eventually, somebody will come along and question those ROCK statuses.

AJ

Ian_Spencer · September 5, 2022, 3:44pm

Roon was installed 2+ years ago but has been updated at every opportunity. I have used it frequently for music replay through NAS and Qobuz and for Rppn radio. Thanks for the spot.

j_a_m_i_e · September 5, 2022, 3:56pm

That is really odd them, I assume the NUC/ROCK been rebooted since you moved it, just wondering if it’s still showing an old/stale IP address. If it hasn’t been do that before continuing and see what IP it is assigned when it boots up.

Also just to be clear, when connected to the Sky Router directly you can navigate to http://192.168.0.13 you can see ROCK web interface and all works fine. But when connected to the switch (and/or Sky mini box?) you can’t navigate to http://192.168.0.13 (from your iMac) even though the NUC is being being assigned the same IP address on startup (confirmed/displayed via the HDMI port).

That was my suspicion, that it was possible the ‘Sky Q minibox’ (effectively an ‘extender’ by another name) was creating a separate subnet, which would have cause an issue as Roon needs all devices to be on the same subnet. But the fact that you seeing the same 192.168.0.13 IP address assigned to the NUC/ROCK is all situations is really odd and seems to suggest this isn’t the case / issue.

Could you update your network diagram above to show where there Sky Q Mini-Box’ fits into your network and also add the IP address of the iMac (under Apple->Network->Settings) and the Sky Router 192.168.0.1 as I think that might help othe3rs following along on new to their thread.

@WiWavelength raises a good point about old versions, I might be inclined to move the NUC back to the Router where you know it works and perform an upgrade. Just to be sure you’re running the latest version of Roon Core, before going any further. You’re lagging a fair few version behind, in fact I am surprised the current client is even working with a Core that old.

I’d also take a look under the ‘Wireless Settings’ on your ROCK screen, when plugged into the Router, just to check that it’s not (occasionally) trying to connect to a WiFI network in certain situations. It shouldn’t be, but be good to rule that possibility out.

Robert_F · September 5, 2022, 4:42pm

I agree with Andrew, that build of Roon Server is very old. You should be running 1.8 Build 1021 currently. If your Remotes are current, they may not be able to connect or connect reliably to the Core running a significantly older version. If you also follow @j_a_m_i_e’s advice, then I would attempt to restart the Roon Server and see if it attempts to update itself.

Ian_Spencer · September 5, 2022, 4:49pm

I’ve connected the NUC to the router directly and can see and navigate the ROCK web interface. I’ve reinstalled the Roon OS (now v.1.8 build 1021) and restarted the RSSoftware. The IP seems to be stable at 192.168.0.13 and the DNC server and Gateway are both given as 192.168.0.1, which is the router. The iMac is on 192.168.0.4 submask 255.255.255.0)
The diagram contains an error. The SKY minibox is now located where the SKY Q 2TB was. I swapped them over about a year ago. The main SKY box is now in the room immediately above the room that contains the hi-fi and the minibox. I will update the diagram and republish. Many thanks - I hope we are moving forward…

Ian_Spencer · September 5, 2022, 5:06pm

I’ve now returned the NUC to its previous working position (see diagram) and it now invisible to the iMac and to the remotes (iPad and android smart phone). ‘Safari can’t connect to the server’ is the response to a search for the IP address.

Ian_Spencer · September 5, 2022, 5:10pm

Thanks. I’ve reinstalled the Roon OS and restarted the RSSoftware. All is now up to date with v.1.8 build 1021. The core disappears when reconnected to the switch and the remotes respond by asking me to ‘Choose your Roon Core’ but they can’t find it. All suggestions gratefully received!

j_a_m_i_e · September 5, 2022, 5:59pm

Assuming the NUC has been powered on & off (and hence picked up that 192.168.0.13 address afresh) then the switch seems like the obvious component that is different between the working and non-working configurations.

What is odd is that the NUC must be making a connection to the router (or another device on your network) to get assigned an IP address via DCHP. I’m assuming the SOTM switch is just a basic passive switch and doesn’t include any DHCP capabilities.

Am I also correct in thinking that the SOTM switch is directly plugged into your router, via one of it’s standard LAN ports ie LAN port 1 to router, LAN port 5 to NUC and that you’re using the same cable to connect it to the switch as you’re using when connecting directly to the router? In short, the only component that changes between a working network configuration and a non-working one is the addition of a single switch?

1/ What happens if you open a terminal (Utilities->Terminal) and type traceroute 192.168.0.13 or ping 192.168.0.13?

2/ Do you see the NUC in your router settings when connected via the switch? Does it look active?

3/ Try plugging your iMac into the SOTM switch to see if it gets assigned an address in the 192.168.0.X address space and that it can correctly connect to the internet OK.

4/ If that works then see if the iMac can also see the NUC at http://192.168.1.32

5/ What was the other switch you tried? Given that the switch seems to be the key component that stops your setup working it would be good to be 100% sure that it’s not the SOTM switch at fault.

Other than that I am kind of out of ideas, I assume that in updating to 1.8 you did a fresh install from a USB thumb drive? Asking as that should hopefully have eliminated any issues or stale settings with the NUC/ROCK itself.

I guess there is a chance that one of the ethernet cables you are using is a ‘crossover cable’ (less used nowadays as most devices are auto-sensing/auto crossover, but traditionally used to connect two computers or switches together, as opposed to a ‘straight cable’ used to connect a computer to a router or switch) and that the router is handling it automatically ie. the device doesn’t care what kind of cable is being used, whereas your switches are being fussier about it. But I am really scraping the barrel there in terms of possible explanations and if a crossover cable was the case then I wouldn’t have expected the NUC to have been correctly assigned an IP address.

j_a_m_i_e · September 5, 2022, 6:17pm

Am I correct on thinking you are connecting the switch directly to the router or are you first connecting it to the Sky Q mini-box? This comment above just confused me.

If the latter (the Sky mini-box is in the mix) can you try connecting the switch directly to your router? That way we can start to eliminate which networking component are causing issues and which aren’t.

Ian_Spencer · September 6, 2022, 2:48pm

I have put in a different switch to no effect.

I don’t think I have explained the setup very well - though there is a new diagram below. The NUC has an ethernet connection through an ethernet cable to the switch and another ethernet cable from the switch to a SKY Q minibox. That minibox connects wirelessly to the router. The player is also connected to the switch. The same ethernet cable is used for all connections. In this configuration and with these cables streaming via Roon worked very well for over a year. About three weeks ago I suddenly lost contact with the core and have since been unable to regain it.

Ians-iMac:~ irgs$ traceroute 192.168.0.13

traceroute to 192.168.0.13 (192.168.0.13), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 * * *
2 * *traceroute: sendto: No route to host
traceroute: wrote 192.168.0.13 52 chars, ret=-1
*
traceroute: sendto: Host is down
3 traceroute: wrote 192.168.0.13 52 chars, ret=-1
*traceroute: sendto: Host is down
traceroute: wrote 192.168.0.13 52 chars, ret=-1

No. The list below, seen today, accounts for all the devices connected to the internet. The one unknown is an iPad 7th gen which is also used as a Roon remote. The NUC is not present when it is plugged in to the switch. It is also not visible in Finder on the iMac.

Devices connected to your home network
Device Name	        MAC Address
HP3F1E22	        fc:15:b4:3f:1e:22
OnePlus-8-Pro	de:af:b6:25:40:36
Mu-sobedroom	50:1e:2d:2d:52:7a
UnitiAtom504197	00:9d:6b:c6:01:73
SkyBooster2	        90:21:06:fd:0e:99
UNKNOWN	        ca:b8:d4:15:a2:66
SKY+HD	                38:a6:ce:d5:7a:14
SKY+HD	                38:a6:ce:eb:aa:6c
SkyBooster4	        9c:31:c3:13:e4:01
Ians-iMac	        88:63:df:b8:16:73

I am not able to plug the iMac into the switch (too great a physical task) but I was able to plug an old Samsung laptop into the switch. It connected to the internet via a cable and collected an IP address of 192.168.0.46.

I opened a browser on the laptop and entered 192.168.1.32 and also tried 192.168.0.1. In both cases the attempt was timed out - and after multiple tries.

It is a small TPLink device intended for desktop use. Its performance was identical to the SoTM when substituted a number of times.

I updated it when the NUC was connected directly to the router. Should I do it again using a memory stick?

I can’t easily do this as the router is in a different room. However, I could get someone in to do it if you think it might be of help. Please let me know about this. Thanks.

j_a_m_i_e · September 6, 2022, 3:24pm

My suspicion based on what you have said above, particularly that the devices aren’t showing in the router when connected to the switch + mini-box, is that the Sky Q Mini-box is somehow likely to be the root of your issue.

I’m not familiar with how the Sky Q Mini-box is assigning IP addresses, but it looks to acting as some kind of network bridge, which can often cause odd networking problems such as these.

It’s purely speculation, but it’s possible that you have two separate private sub-nets both using the 192.168.0.X address space, one managed by your router and one managed by your Sky Q Mini-box and that’s causing Roon issues as it sees them as separate subnets.

Simplifying your network and then adding back components until you hit problems is always the easiest / best way to resolve issues such as these. If you can’t hard wire the switch directly back to the router, can you see if the NUC works when plugged directly into the Sky Q ‘booster’ box. If it still fails (and given you have already tried a second switch) that would likely rule out an issue with the switches (and the NUC, which works fine when connected to the router directly) and indicate an issue with the Sky Q box.

Sorry my bad, I meant to type 192.168.0.13 (not 1.32. If it’s easy to try that again (from your Samsung laptop connected to the switch) with http://192.168.0.13 give it a go, as it would be interesting to know if you can see your NUC/ROCK web interface when on the ‘other side’ of your Sky mini-box ie. the devices directly connected together to it via your switch.

The fact that you can’t connect back to 192.168.0.1 (ie. your router) when connect to the mini-box/extender, but you can see the internet, suggests the mini-box is doing some routing of it’s own. Conversely that you can’t see the devices connected to the mini-box from any devices connected to the router (directly or wi-fi) also suggest this.

Maybe someone else with a Sky Q Mini-box might be able to help?

I’m wary of causing you more issues, but I do wonder if resetting and setting up the Sky-Q box up afresh might be worth trying as a last resort as that does now feel like the key component that is differentiating a working from a non-working network configuration.

Also, did you mention that you had a second Sky-Q Mini box? it may be worth using that one in the place of the one your using for your Roon setup and see if that one works in it’s place?