What kind of difference matters?

Perhaps we should start an ‘Audiophile Dictionary’ for the uninitiated? It would be able to translate audiophile jargon as it applies to this genre of audio equipment.
For example:
‘provided enhanced pace and rhythm’ = ‘I really couldn’t tell any difference’
‘it was as if multiple veils were lifted’ = ‘there might be something there, yeah, I’m pretty sure’
‘I was stunned by the difference’ = ‘I spent a ton of money on this and I was relieved I could hear something of a difference’

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I have found that in many cases like DACs and headphone amps I can’t make a meaningful comparison when I switch back and forth, playing a single track or a fraction of it. But over weeks or months, the preference becomes clear.

And this is not surprising, for subtle differences. Applies to many other subtle fields.

For example, last year I needed to equip two different locations with quality headphone amps and DACs, and I was curious about two trains of technology innovation and got separate models, Chord and Benchmark, after recommendations from people I respect and after quick auditions. I also had two lower-priced but still excellent systems. Initially I considered them equivalent, not just equally good but hard to notice any difference. Now, several months later, the difference and preference are clear.

Such a long term evaluation is not blind, of course. And I’m not selling my opinion. You might suspect confirmation bias. You might even suspect price tag bias: the price range is $500 — $10,000. Make of that what you will. I choose which system to listen to when I have a choice.

This is perhaps some aspect of our cognition. How we process various cues into a perception.
For example, with some loudspeakers I can quickly discern differences in imaging, bass impact, vocal distinctions, differences in how a drumstick sounds hitting a rim. Fairly easy stuff.
But one speaker makes me tap my toes and relax and another leaves me cold. I really can’t wrap my mind around how the brain does that. And clearly what works for me works differently to another person. As one Audio Store guy said to me “Nobody ever comes in here asking for bloated bass”.

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I never do A/B test, only long term. I have only one very simple test for myself.
When I have the tendency to constantly skip songs while listening I know there is something wrong with the playback chain. I allways follow my own nr.1 rule, never blame the recording. When the system is right it forces me to listen, it makes every music, nomatter if it is my style of music and nomatter how it was recorded, at least interesting to listen to. That’s my reference, nothing else really. I can’t explain in words what it is that makes or breaks it but I just know it when I hear it. I’m totally not interested in the tiny differences in power cables or ethernet cabling for instance. Yes, there are differences but these kind of differences are not worth the endless restless chasing for me. Biggest differences are loudspeaker/room integration and loudspeaker/amplifier/crossover interaction… The rest falls in the 10% or less category, cables all fall in the 1% or less category to me, yes stepping up from garbage to something decent has a pretty big impact but above that differences are becoming so tiny and absoluty not in any relation to the prices asked.

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I don’t know about the fruit liquor. More like corn syrup with some alcohol in it.

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You’re quite correct. After an extremely bad experience with it when I was a university student (several lifetimes ago) I have not been able to go anywhere near the stuff.

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Or a tequila popper in TJ aka amateur cervical spine chiropractic

The main tourist drag through Tijuana is Avenida Revolución. Cheap tequila and 7-up or Sprite are poured into the patient’s mouth from behind then the doctor drink tender shakes the patients head violently to shake it up. Many have a hard time getting it down and when they do some throw it all up and then some.

And I thought I was the only one who had that kind of experience and that kind of repulsion to Southern Comfort! :smile:

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Got blind drunk on Smirnoff vodka when I was fifteen.
To this day, I can’t even look at a bottle.

@Larry_Post, on another note when I lived in El Paso, I used to cross over to Juarez to party.
Don’t think one would do that any more…

I don’t remember any real problems drinking Southern Comfort in college. Most of the problems were burns from flaming shots getting spilled along the way.

The drug violence in the 80s was certainly not what it is or had been in recent years. I’m sure the lure of the 18 yr drinking age is enough for many to still cross at San Ysidro. There’s a nice pedestrian bridge that is hours and hours faster than driving.

Re: Your Smirnoff is others Tanqueray

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My tequila. I cannot even smell it w/o getting nauseous. San Francisco, 1991.

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To answer the OP, I think there are clearly different personality types at play here. There cannot be one right answer.

I have always been a “value” guy. I like transactions where I feel I’ve made a net gain (that is not to say to rip off the other guy…rather there are many win-win scenarios).

For example, during the 2008 gas crunch I picked up a BMW 545i for 2/3 its blue book value. That was not the fanciest BMW I could have possibly found, but it gave me more than a taste of luxury vehicle and it has been a nice experience to own it, except for when, er, the whole engine had to be disassembled. There was that.

I’ve enjoyed buying a lot of 80s/90s vintage audio gear, because the price to performance ratio is excellent (albeit some of those pieces have died on me). It has allowed me to experience something near high end without the expense others have incurred.

We do the same in my law boutique. I like to think our training and experience with sophisticated deals makes us punch above our weight in deal sophistication, but that said we are still a small firm and don’t have rates like the biggest shops. It’s the intersection of price and quality that determines VALUE.

Some call me cheap - like the time I insisted we sit at the cafe in Piazzale San Marco in Venice that was next to the cafe that had the quartet playing, but not AT the cafe where the quartet was playing. But we got to hear the music and our drinks were 1 Euro cheaper, plus we got a free cup of potato chips (crisps for you Brits). Value!

This necessarily means that I have to recognize the concept of diminishing marginal returns. I think that is what Anders is getting at above…at some point the cost or effort in an improvement isn’t merited by the magnitude of the benefit. But I admit that is inherently subjective, and others will draw the line at a different level.

Some people just have a lot of money and those expenditures don’t move the needle on their overall financial security. That is great for them. I’m not in that spot and I have to pick my efforts a bit more carefully. So I try to get a taste of the good life while keeping my feet on the ground. Not always an easy balance when you see those shiny new things.

And yeah, I think some folks that purchase the massive power cables, fancy ethernet, cable risers, etc., just like the way they look, even if their impact is questionable. I’m OK with that, but it doesn’t nullify a scientific exploration of their true VALUE.

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You have found the correct answer.

This hobby is about creating an illusion; I do believe that certain people hear an improvement in the illusion they are creating by using silver ethernet cable, well, it’s the trip they are on, and hey, it’s their money!

You and I know better (about ethernet cables), but… folks is folks.

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I must confess I am a bit confused, about what’s the subject of discussion here :slight_smile: .

I think that’s caused by the comparison with Kenny g/Coltrane, and acoustic/ electric guitar. Did you really get such low scores on that, or is my sarcarm meter malfunctioning ? I’m absolutely confident that I would be well above 90 percent on both, and have a hard time believing that a music lover would judge otherwise…

Anyway, in an attempt to answer : to me, the difference that matters is, the difference that is obvious and clear. The difference that doesn’t require a/b/x testing, to be sure.

If an abx was required, it means (for me) that there was no real problem to begin with. I simply would not notice, if somebody changed my system to the worse option, without me knowing. Only by carefully comparing, I would find out.

Summarizing : from a professional viewpoint, I love abx-ing (all small changes really do add up).

But from a private viewpoint, I hate them. I don’t do them privately, only professionally or out of curiosity sometimes.
Private life is about actually enjoying what you have. It takes a bit of time to appreciate that, and I hope to keep it that way for a long time.

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Of course there was not a word of truth in that OP.
In the memorable words of William Gibson, Realness is kinda sorta.

The point of my long-winded diatribe was, if you feel a need to convince somebody or yourself that the difference is audible, maybe you should reconsider your priorities.

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Priorities, values, and judgment.

I like it :slight_smile:

Well, there you are. That was my point as well. Nice to agree with one another :).

That’s not to say that it doesn’t matter, at all. All small improvements really do add up, to a bigger one eventually.

I won’t go down that rabbit hole here, if you agree :slight_smile:.