When is "digital" industry going to get its act together?

Roon Software Discussion
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k - so here’s a list of the relevant kit.

Pro-ject streambox s2 Ultra. Ifi Zen stream. Denafrips dacs. Project dac. Topping dac.

Windows computer running as Roon core running through one hard wired wi-fi point that connects wirelessly to wi-fi points that are in turn connected to streamers with CAT cabling

And (my point) a world of options appearing and disappearing from Roon set-up menus depending on whether some seemingly obscure box on a different interface is ticked, or left switched on, or set at option 1, 2 or 3 - and the functionality of those “options” being too often an incomprehensible tangle of jargon.

I know I’m not alone when looking at settings to be rendered down to something akin to a monkey at a typewriter stabbing away at indecipherable keys in the hope, that one fine and sunny day, an actual sentence will pop into existence.

It should not be this hard! Just when is the industry going to get its ■■■■ together, and besides penning straight forward explanations of what’s what, eradicate the idiotic clatter of competing audio interfaces having to pretend they work in concert when all they actually seem to do is shout at one another and throw punches?

As an illustrative example of what I’m on about , when DSD options appeared on the Roon interface (because it seems I was holding my tongue “just so”) the resulting audio sounded like it was coming from the bottom of a linen basket crammed with damp washing. Why for god’s sake!

Did I maybe have the laundry option ticked in Volumio such that Roon got squelched in sogginess?

I can live with drop-outs. I can handle software crashes. I’m easy with catalogues dropping albums I’d previously earmarked.

But the needlessly complex and scarcely explained menu settings that are hooked into some eternal and infernal conflict with the similarly opaque settings of other interfaces just seems wholly unnecessary and avoidable. Is this really the best that late stage capitalism of the 21st Century has to offer?.

I could almost hanker for the days when the sound of a record playing was simply what a particular set-up sounded like when playing a record - when the quality of speakers or of a CD player or amp gave you what it gave you…

Anyway. Disgruntled rant over. Thank you for your time and have a nice day. :wink:

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Maybe you should buy a radio and stop using Roon.

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FM, AM or Digital??

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What is it you feel needs to be done in the settings? If the device is Roon Ready the settings Roon gives the device should work and enable the full capability of the device.
If you have a Roon Bridge then you have to know what the capabilities of the bridge are and input that into Roon. Especially if not using USB.
I feel that they key is to know your kit. Maybe just a little easier than knowing a piece of universal software like Roon. And the issue for Roon is that it needs to be universal. Every platform as a core. All compatible hardware as potential peripherals. The settings cover all possibilities but to me the way to narrow things down is only to be aware of what your endpoints need.

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lol - that one of them thar wire-less contraptions that you speak of?

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My irksomeness s’not to be taken too seriously guys, aye? See it as commentary on the “best of what the 21st Century has to offer” being…less than stellar.

But anyway - all dacs running on USB.

As of right now, Pro-ject stream box s2 Ultra will not allow Denafrips Pontus 12th to do DSD (running 705.6 khz conversion and no DSD option within Roon)

Likewise, the Denafrips Ares II would not usually run on DSD from the Pro-ject ultra (one time “laundry basket”) , but is running just fine at DSD 256 from the Ifi zenstream.

Both the ifi Zen stream and the Pro-ject Ultra are based on Volumio. I’ve tried to replicate the settings across both streamers, though the Volumio options are not the same for both streamers.

Is the issue with the Pro-ject or Volumio or Denafrips or Roon - or a weird combination across platforms and hardware as a result entities of chasing/protecting “market share” ? (Ah, the cynicism :slight_smile: )

Anyway, I can’t quite recall the behaviour of the Topping dac on the Ifi versus the Pro-ject, but regardless, I’m left thinking it’s not so flash that one platform doesn’t simply over-ride the other and that we, the customers, are left trying to navigate various conflicts that arise from the interaction between platforms.

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The issue here is likely different Linux operating systems on each device. DSD is notably more problematic on Linux. As no drivers are required for Linux it requires all DAC vendors to adhere to the standard USB Audio 2 compliance and the streaming side to use up to date Linux kernels to ensure DSD works as it should. If they dont follow USB Audio class compliance it requires the Linux kernel to be patched to allow DSD sp out of date kernel won’t work with some DACs. So these worth fall back to DoP or doesn’t work at all. A lot of these bespoke dacs don’t always use class compliance only support higher DSD on Windows with a driver and the streamer side often need to update kernels, the Ifi Zen is on a really old one and can’t be updated due to some limitation of the hardware.

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I have that feeling but I think that state of being is natural. Like in: why there are so many languages?

Unfortunately I do not like the alternative but there is (not for entry level audio devices and comps all together). APPLE. Use their hardware, apps and all works (well almost but better than choosing a melting pot)

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Volumio. I’m not sure what their arrangement is when they provide software for these devices but it isn’t consistent between hardware providers and at least one I can think of has walked away from Volumio and opted for software based on Ropieee instead. I’m blessed with hardware that I can choose the software for and while they all work in their own right their interoperation with Roon can vary. And this is where the OP is actually right on point. If people advertise their hardware as Roon compliant put some effort into ensuring it actually is and continues to be.

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This caught out a Mac user recently, and none of the marketing seemed to make it clear that higher rates were only supported on Windows.

Ah, so the issue is DAC and streamer vendors, not Linux! :laughing:

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Playing a file and getting the correct decode shouldn’t be hard. In the OP’s case it does look like inconsistencies in how the OS is working on the bridge/streamers he owns.

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Yes, but is not plug and play often times.

For my CA 200M still I could not make it work in native with linux. I know it does since using Volumio that is linux works native. Probably with more patience I’ll make that also on ubuntu. But it way way a lot of work. And is just a dac, you overlay streamer and others. We might do it but for sure my mum will just Airplay from iPhone.

Edit: I did not write to Cambridge Audio but others did, asking to firmware update. And more or less the answer is that there are to few users using the dac like this.

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:rofl: Now I get your ‘A’ (watching the video) I was thinking about Apple. I use to like him but far far better on this forum.

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Yes. The business model in the current “audiophile” market calls for maximizing “differentiation.” Since digital audio technology renders real audio/sonic differences among hardware or software products far below the threshold of perception, the variety of induced differences skyrockets as marketers work feverishly to create the illusion of differentiation between their “solution” and all the others competing for a burgeoning heap of money from an ever-narrowing number of specialty consumers seeking to spend the last dollar on their vanity hobby.

This is precisely what late stage capitalism has produced.

At least, that is how I see it.

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I feel you absolutely must add HQPlayer with NAA to the mix. Go ahead and jump off the deep end. The water is fine. :wink:

I know this is not helpful but fits with the rhetorical theme.

I love the learning, exploration and yes complexity of it all. It keeps my brain alive. Things we know are simple. If they are not, we do not know them, yet.

There are solutions such as Sonos that make this all simple but I suspect that is not what you seek.

DSD content is a sham. Upsampling everything to high rate DSD is not. Jussi for the win!

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Indeed. Leaving aside the notion that DSD seems, to me, like a pointless distraction, the lack of synergy in the 70’s-inspired mode of frankensystem audio is disheartening.

Ideally, skilled engineers would integrate all of this in one place, instead of leaving poor music consumers without systems training to do this on our own. Of course, some of the best systems are in fact done this way. Kii three speakers or Dutch & Dutch, for example.

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