Which HQP Filter are you using? [2015-2023]

I’ve Moderated out the whole discussion about who should or shouldn’t be posting about what. It’s irrelevant and adds nothing to the thread.

Edit: Also shifted some discussions into their own threads.

For the Antipodes / HQPlayer users… update is available.

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Hi Jussi,

Could you please link to a post where you describe the technical theory for the various filters? I am sure it is on here or CA somewhere but the threads are hundreds of pages long.

Even though WTA is a secret, do you have an educated guess of what it is doing? I have some knowledge of digital signal processing and my understanding is that the different algorithms are just different coefficient weights for each interpolated sample. If you had an infinite length filter the weights would be purely determined by the sinc function, but since there is a finite filter length you need to do some tapering towards the ends of the filter to avoid ringing artefacts.

There are different ways to taper the data and some methods cause smearing in the frequency domain, and therefore smearing of transients in the time domain. My guess is that WTA is some sort of multi-tapering, where the coefficients are calculated by a number of different sinusoidal tapers to preserve resolution in the frequency domain and temporal accuracy of transients in the time domain.

Is my understanding in the right ballpark?

I don’t really do that.

No, you are mixing things… :slight_smile:

Primary reason for smearing comes from length of the filter, transients affecting samples before and after the transient. Longer the filter, longer this time window is.

Since frequency and time and inversely proportional, challenge is to make the filter as short as possible in time domain while making it perform as well as possible in the frequency domain. At the same time. Better the design algorithm, closer to the impossible you can get.

MQA focuses entirely on time domain and thus it suffers a lot in frequency domain. Chord does the opposite. I think I explained this couple of messages earlier.

Just look at step response of the filter, and look at it in dB amplitude scale. That tells you about the transient response.

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@jussi_laako, with the EC (extra compensation) modulators, what does “compensation” refer to ?

7 posts were split to a new topic: Using a turntable input to HQP

I see that the latest Pro version includes a new filter – Sinc-L. Will it make its way into the Consumer version as well? If so, I wonder how does it compare to the Sinc-M filter.

Yes, next versions of Desktop and Embedded will include it.

It is quite a bit longer, but adaptive length just like the others. It is one million taps already at 8x ratio and with 256x ratio this 32 million taps.

But the filter design algorithm is totally different than sinc-S and sinc-M, this one has much lower attenuation, is non-apodizing, but steepness is extreme. So in other words, other extremely long filter, but different approach.

For PCM outputs it is not particularly heavy on CPU. For SDM outputs it gets heavy but GPU helps a lot. However, it uses a lot of GPU RAM, so in order to do DSD256 with it you need more than 8 GB of RAM on the graphics card. My RTX2080 (8 GB) runs out of memory with it for DSD256. But RTX2080Ti (11 GB) can do it with 8.4 GB memory usage and 13% GPU load.

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Can’t wait to try it!

Interesting. I will probably just stick to PCM anyway but it does raise the question what spec my Antipodes CX is. All I know is that it’s a 6 core i7

Much simpler, what does it do to the sound and how does it change it in listening ?
May i use for files 16/44.1 ?
Tks Giovanni.

Thinking on buying a licence. Will this be on version 4.x or will be a 5.x release?

Current licenses are for 4.x. I have no information about 5.x.

@jussi_laako ; What is the filter on your RME ? :wink:
I think the filter inside has no impact over 192kb, but for my curiosity, what is the filter used on your RME (Sharp or NOS - PCM not direct DSD, of course)

If you mean DAC side filter, I have it set to sharp linear phase, but it doesn’t matter because it never gets used in my use cases. I always have it set to DSD Direct and send DSD256 there. The filter is omitted for >= 352.8k rates. If you want to send PCM there, send 705.6/768k, since it gives much better performance than sending lower rates because the on-chip digital filter outputs only up to 384k.

For inputs, I have ADC set to sharp linear phase and when running in multichannel CC mode ADC rate is limited to 192k the filter actually applies for analog inputs. This way I get both analog input and three digital inputs as well without touching configuration. 192k should be enough for vinyl use cases. But for more extreme I can run it in stereo CC mode and at 768/32 PCM or DSD256 ADC, but then the digital inputs fall out. Not necessarily too much of a problem, but a bit too much hassle to change the mode especially since it requires disconnecting the USB cable if the server is running.

Hey all,

Got my i9 9900k with a 2070 super and m.2 SSDs, 32gb ddr4 3600mhz. Running a Spring 2 DAC so i can support DSD 1024.

Whats the most intensive setup you think i can push with this setup?

You could try ASDM7EC at DSD 512, I don’t know of anyone running this yet. I am sure others will have some suggestions.

I am running ASDM7EC at 256DSD on my overclocked i7 9700.

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For real-time upsampling, this needs a CPU with base speed of minimum 8 GHz (for at least 2 cores I think). Doesn’t exist at the moment. This could be a very long wait.

HQPlayer Pro can do DSD1024 with EC modulators offline though.

Wishful thinking then! Thanks for the info.

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Ha no worries. The core count is increasing with new CPU’s but for EC modulators (real-time upsampling) the base speed is more important and that doesn’t seem to be increasing as quickly.

Maybe there’ll be a step change coming in the future.

I’m no expert though. I’m just parroting what the Guru @jussi_laako has said.