Hello, my current setup is: Tidal > Roon > Roon Rock on i7 NUC > Router > ethernet to fibre converter > Optical rendu as roon ready endpoint > RME ADI FS 2 DAC > Amp (Musical Fidelity M6si)> Speakers (Triangle Alpha).
I recently did acoustic treatment to my listening room. Now I want to:
add an active subwoofer with its own separate Roon ready RAAT streamer and DAC
do room correction and crossover for speakers / subwoofer using Roon DSP convolutions.
Can anyone tell me if the following approach will work:
Get convolutions (from Home Audio Fidelity) to use in Roon DSP for room correction and crossover to split signal between Optical rendu/REM DAC/main speakers (zone 1) and New RAAT roon ready streamer/DAC/subwoofer (zone 2).
It might work but would be quite unconventional path, primarily attempting to group the 2 zones together and is needlessly complex.
I suggest you explore hooking up your subwoofer (consider two smaller subs vs. one large to massively help improve the in room bass response) using high-level outputs of your MF M6si amp. If the subwoofer doesn’t have high-level inputs a Jensen transformer can convert the amps output to line-level for the subwoofer to accept. The advantage is perfect phase relationship between the main speakers and the sub(s) signal. Then you only have to deal with finding the best place in the room and the in-room phase of the subs response. The active sub will or should have a crossover and 180 deg adjustable phase. Avoid those with only a switch for phase. More precise tuning is ‘required’. Best to get all of this sorted before making the recordings for Thierry.
Otherwise, you’re on the right track regarding convolution. Thierry is great to work with.
I agree with Larry, this how I integrate my sub, using high level input from my amp. I then use Housecurve along with the subs controls to setup the sub and align it to first get the levels of the sub as closely matched to the mains and to set best crossover point and time align it using phase control or you may need to move the speakers or sub to help with larger delays. Then just take regular readings after this is done to sort out any further issues via DSP. There is no need for high pass filtering really for hifi speakers.
Thank you Larry and CrystalGipsy for your feedback. I will take your advice on board.
Please excuse my ignorance as I am new to this stuff. Larry, do I interpret you correctly to be saying:
there is no need for a roon DSP convolution to phase align the subs with the main speakers because by connecting the main speakers and subs to the MF m6si they will already be in phase alignment and any fine tuning can be done with subs that have 180 degree adjustable phase.
there is no additional improvement in room correction for bass frequencies / addressing room modes that separate roon zones / dac for the subs can achieve beyond what thierry / a convolution could achieve with the subs connected direct to the MF M6si
No, not at all. Convolution is a massive benefit but the better the system you start with the more latitude/fine tuning will be available via convolution. The physics of incorporating subs into the room is complex. Everything interacts with each other, including the low freq drivers in your main speakers. The better time aligned and smoother the in-room response before measuring and creating the convolution filters the better.
Convolution is not a panacea for all time and response issues. It’s a sharp scalpel that is not appropriate to fix massive issues.
No eq or convolution can fix nulls in bass response. Damn physics. The more power put into a null, the more nothing changes. Getting the in-room bass response as good as practical is paramount prior to convolution. Thierry then will have the latitude to tune it to your preferences instead of using up all that can be done just to get close.
Hope this helps. Chat with him, he’s very knowledgeable and willing to help achieve the best outcome.
Its always best to get things as best you can first before doing DSP as Larry says more latitude to make corrections as it correcting less in other. But you dont need to split it over two zones to do this.
Mantra is less is more for DSP. Thierry is great I used to use his filters but now try and do my own and I changed my speakers since I used his filters in and this helped negate my big issues in there. But my other space needs DSP.
Tried Dirac which will do it all and was never satisfied with the results at all. I Strongly suggest using rew or Housecurve to help align the sub, the creator explains the best process to acheive it using the app. Its worth while investing in an UMIK1 calibrated mic to.
I’ve used Thierrys filters for years now, 6 or 7 I think. He’s very kind to tweak them as needs arise.
Spend some time reading about how to find the ‘best’ physical location for the sub(s) and I strongly suggest dual ‘lesser’ subs vs. a single. Always keep in mind it’s the in-room response that matters not the so-called performance of the sub. Unless of course you’re trying to fill an auditorium sized space.
nulls and resonance are the challenge. Phase or timing is quite easy these days with the tools available. REW is a very powerful tool along with a calibrated mic like the UMIK UM-1 I believe. Spend the few bucks and spend a few weeks with REW, even before you get a sub. It will produce graphs allowing you to visualize/confirm and tweak the response in your space.
Response will change between two locations less than a foot or so apart. Best you can do is avoid deep nulls and welling up resonances in your listening location. Multiple subs create constructive and destruction waves to help combat both problems.
It’s all a compromise though…as ‘fixing’ one issue will usually make another worse. At the end of the day the sound to you is what matters. Use the tools to get as close as practical to the compromise you prefer.
Thanks both of you for these helpful additional comments. I’m definitely planning on getting a measuring mic and starting with REW to position the speakers, subs and listening position to minimise room modes before starting down the DSP room correction path. I sure will be looking into 2 smaller subs rather than 1 large one. I get what you are saying about nulls and resonance being the more difficult to solve issue, and I understand that room correction can’t fix nulls. Thanks guys and keep resisting/going with the flow as appropriate
