Yet another Roon + Tidal issue

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Qnap 251+

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Linksys EA8300

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Bricasti M5 + Benchmark DAC3

Description Of Issue

Like many others, since the last update using Roon + Tidal has become almost impossible and sure very annoying. It work randomly and quite rarely without issues.

At the rest of the time it just don’t start the playback. More than that.after I try I need to reset my streamer in order to listen to local library stuff.

I tried: restarting the router, restarting the core and all the remotes both pc and android.

Needles to say that the Tidal app works with no issues and internet speed i way above the requirements for any music needs.

Please advise

Hi @Nir_Roiter,

You should be aware that this Core does not meet our Minimum Requirements, it looks like it uses a Celeron CPU which is under our recommended CPU specifications.

As for this issue in particular, does it affect only the Bricasti zone or does it impact other zones as well? What exactly are you seeing in Roon, do you see any error messages?

What is your network speed according to speedtest.net or fast.com?

The Qnap works better than the windows running NUC7i5 i have and anyway I don’t see how it is related to the specific problem roon works flawlessly if not for the tidal issue.
When trying to play tidal i see a “light” going back and forth on the play progress bar.
No error msg. Simply won’t play.
I don’t have other zones to test it on.
Internet speed is
Ping ms

48

Download Mbps

268.33

Upload Mbps

287.60

And probably doubles in the evening.

An update.
I finally managed to play a song or two but after few minutes I get the msg
“Tidal media is loading slowly…” it then skip to the next song.
Makes little sense considering the tidal app shows no hint of problem.

Hi @Nir_Roiter,

Can you please note the exact local time + date + track you experience this issue next with? I would like to enable diagnostics mode for your account and see if the logs have any further clues.

I don’t log my listening hours so I’ll try it again in the weekend and report.
You can try diagnose yesterday 2-3 pm when I listened to sada baby album and little later to omen by oscarr. The first one worked somehow with breaks and skips the second one I couldn’t listen

Hi, I’ve noticed another thing.
When I try to play tidal from my android phone I experience this 100% of the time.
Playback won’t start and I have to reset the bricasti in order to play local files.


From this mornin 9:23 Korea time

Any updates? at the moment playing Tidal from my NUC as a remote works randomly and from my Android phone doesn’t work at all.

Hi @Nir_Roiter,

Thanks for letting me know the timestamp. I have activated diagnostics mode and what this action should have done is automatically upload a lot set, but I am not seeing this report come through. Let’s proceed as follows:

  1. Can you please save a manual log set from your QNAP by using these instructions (QNAP Option) and send it to me via Dropbox / Google Drive / Send.firefox.com?

  2. You mentioned having a PC controller in your setup, can you try temporarily hosting the Roon Core there and verify if the same issue occur? You can switch Cores by using these instructions:

  • Open Roon on the other PC you wish to try as the Core
  • Roon Settings -> General
  • Disconnect
  • On the “Choose your Core” screen, press “Use this PC”
  • If asked to Unauthorize, you can go ahead and do so. You are limited to one active Roon Core at a time but you are free to switch between them as often as you’d like.
  • Verify if the same behavior occurs on the different PC

Hi @Nir_Roiter,

Thanks for sending those logs over, I have requested some feedback from the technical team regarding them. While we await further feedback, can you also please give my second troubleshooting suggestion a try?

Hi Noris, Just tried to switch the cores and play a Tidal album from my phone.
Local time 10:43 and everything is just the same.

Hello @Nir_Roiter,

In the diagnostic logs it appears that the Bricasti M5 is failing to process the stream from Roon in a timely manner

Trace: [M5] [zoneplayer/raat] Endpoint Bricasti M5 Network Player State Changed: Buffering => Ready
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Trace: [M5] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [PLAYING @ 0:00] BOOYAKASHA - Oscarr
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Trace: [M5] [zoneplayer/raat] wait for ready in 0ms
Trace: [Bricasti M5 Network Player @ 192.168.1.121:48162] [raatclient] SENT [134]{"request":"start","min_offset":101836734,"stream_sample":0}
Trace: [M5] [zoneplayer/raat] Endpoint Bricasti M5 Network Player State Changed: Ready => Playing
Trace: [Bricasti M5 Network Player @ 192.168.1.121:48162] [raatclient] GOT [133] {"status":"Playing"}
Trace: [Bricasti M5 Network Player @ 192.168.1.121:48162] [raatclient] GOT [134] {"status":"Success","time":7815274394625}
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Trace: [M5] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [PLAYING @ 0:02/2:08] BOOYAKASHA - Oscarr
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Debug: [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
Trace: [Bricasti M5 Network Player @ 192.168.1.121:48162] [raatclient] GOT [133] {"status":"Dropout","samples":5431}
Trace: [Bricasti M5 Network Player @ 192.168.1.121:48162] [raatclient] GOT [133] {"status":"Dropout","samples":22932}

What we see here is Roon starting to buffer audio to the device, however the device cannot process the data fast enough to start realtime playback. This could be due to an issue with the networking stack or the CPU load on the M5.

I recommend reaching out to Bricasti with this report as they would be in the best position to diagnose what is causing this issue to occur.

-John

Thanks for the update
I will check it out.
Few questions

  1. According to what you say I should have experience this when trying to play tidal both from remote pc and from android but it mainly happen in android, why is that?

  2. If the problem is the bricasti device, if I pick another zone I should not experience problems ?

  3. Why it never happens with local files on my NAS?

  4. Why I didn’t experience that before the last update?

So I switched zones and tried to play on my phone.
It did the same and suddenly started playing for few seconds and then skipped to the next song.
In between I caught an error msg.


Hi @Nir_Roiter,

Thanks for confirming the behavior occurs on multiple endpoints. Have you had a chance to try a different Core? Perhaps this will provide some more information:

Yes, I tried my NUC as core and the problem is just the same.
I have noticed that now it happens works relatively well when using the NUC as remote but always fail when using my phone. The phone works fine to play local library music.

Btw. Does the analysis you guys run might be the reason Roon feels slower?

Hi @Nir_Roiter,

Thanks for trying the different Core. Since this behavior reproduces there as well, I’d like to focus on your network setup further. You mentioned that you’re using a Linksys EA8300. Can you confirm that you have the latest firmware updates for this router? What DNS servers are you using? Can you give Cloudflare/Quad9 a try if you are using the ISP default?