It seems to me that in the context of audio over Ethernet or USB, you’ll need to define quite carefully what you mean by “noise” and “signal”, and where in the system these should be observed. You should then be able to say just how big the noise is relative to the signal which will illustrate why that should (or should not) be a concern. Otherwise there is a strong likelihood that we’re all talking at cross purposes.
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Well articulated. I fear we’ve been at cross purposes for the last several hundred posts…
Are you referring to digital or analogue here? Can you define what you mean by signal and explain how this is affected by noise?
What other camp is there? Is it anti-science?
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I recently replaced my Mac Mini with a Nucleus (I was fortunate that my dealer was happy to lend me a Nucleus, with no obligation, so I really was able to compare without being affected by having just spent a fair amount of money on “an upgrade”).
Using USB out from the Nucleus to my DAC definitely improved the sound compared to USB from the Mac Mini (don’t know why). More surprisingly, I also feel that it improved the sound over ethernet to my dCS Network Bridge (really don’t know why, but this is now my preferred playback option).
For a while, I had been feeling that Roon (on the Mac Mini) was compromising the sound through the network bridge, when compared to using dCS’s own Mosaic software. Replacing the Mac Mini with the Nucleus has made this feeling go away.
I make no technical claims here. Given some of the heated discussion in this thread, I wouldn’t dare to try to rationalise any of this. All I would say, is that, if you are able to borrow a Nucleus and make comparisons, do give it a try.
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@evand exactly a point I made a little while ago. People chase 0.5% differences from changing bits of wire (should that 0.5% even exist) but don’t make any attempt to fix fundamental problems with listening space, seating position, speaker position etc. A little acoustic treatment will do more for a hifi system than any amount of cabling ever will.
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Output = analogue.
We’re talking about the digital part of the chain – ethernet vs USB, switches and cables …
I have no idea what you think you mean by “noise” in that context. Care to elaborate?
“ Innuos have told me that they were not happy with having Roon as a Core and an Endpoint together at the same time. Innuos stated the SQ from their unit would be better using Logitech Media Server, not Roon.”
That is rather strange. I have an Innuos Zenith running as a Roon core and also running squeezebox as the endpoint in the Zenith, ie the Zenith is directly connected to the dac by usb. I was under the impression that was the Innuos favoured configuration for best sound quality.
Ps, I output to a Chord Blu2 MScaler linked to a Dave.
They just want to sell you more stuff! Having said that, Roon recommends separating Core and output, so though connecting a Nucleus to a DAC via USB will work fine, there may be some merit to using a networked streamer/renderer instead. The primary advantage being galvanic isolation.
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I might have missed this but have you considered Devialet? They make very sophisticated all-in-one units that are of exceptional quality and innovation. You could do away with all of your other pieces of equipment and connect the Devialet to your Roon server. I’ve had a Devialet unit for many years connected to an iMac via USB. Very simple and reliable. I currently have Magnepan LRS speakers. Great sound.
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Just get a good DAC. Dealers are motivated by greed. I recommend the Matrix Audio Element XSabre Pro MQA DAC. It’s very detailed, extremely low distortion, and very natural sounding. Go to Audio Science Review to look at its measured performance. It’s currently TOTL rated out of 150+ dacs.
Those dealers are trying to sell product…product you don’t need.
Here’s my setup:
16TB NAS (Synology ds412+)
Roon Nucleus+
DCS Network Bridge
Esoteric K-01Xs (DAC)
I need the dCS Bridge because the Esoteric does not have a LAN connection, nor HDMI. I also didn’t want to use USB mainly because I wanted the Roon in my Network closet, so I added the dCS to bridge the gap. The dCS fixes transmission issues and timing and is a Roon endpoint. You probably don’t need the dCS.
In the end all you need is the Roon Nucleus, NAS, and a DAC that can handle streaming or has USB.
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You don’t need the NAS, either. In fact, Roon hates it when you keep your music on a NAS. Just plug a hard disk into the Nucleus.
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Hi @DJM,
This reply may be too late to be useful, but fwiw I’ve been running a Nucleus+ directly connected via USB to a Benchmark DAC3 and am extremely happy with the SQ. What I found essential to making this configuration work acceptably is replacing the Roon wall-wart with a high-quality power supply (in my case a Teddy Pardo unit), because what this configuration will not get you out of the box is electrical isolation of your DAC from the Nucleus+, and I would guess that is why many people you’ve spoken to advise against it.
You can get that electrical isolation via the network. You have basically two options: either a high-quality endpoint like the Sonore units or an RJ-45 equipped Roon-Ready DAC like Mytek’s Brooklyn streamer. I decided against either because in the first case it would have been at least as expensive as the high-quality PS and I did not want the extra LAN traffic, in the second because all such units are wannabe streamers and I didn’t need or want the additional complexity.
Have fun!
Hiya Willk
It’s never too late, especially for slight amendments.
Yesterday, my Nucleus and the Matrix X-Sabre Pro MQA DAC arrived. So I am taking the same route as you, and also that of many Roon Community members. I can, and probably will go down the power supply route in a few months time, once I’ve paid for this lot! I have ordered a SSD for the Nucleus as this will replace my cheap, eight year old Qnap NAS.
I don’t want to mention ‘cables’ as this will quite rightly open up a can of worms on this thread. The DAC comes with a USB cable, which looks a bit cheap and nasty, but it’ll get me started. I already have a pair of Atlas RCAs, so this afternoon I will set it up…and play some sounds!
Do you mind me asking, what cables (XLR or RCA) you are using and is your music storage on your Nucleus +?
Thanks 
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Hi @DJM.
I have little patience for cable voodoo & have never had any experience with “premium” cables other than hit-or-miss subtle changes in the the EQ. There are less expensive and more reliable ways of getting the latter than “premium” cables.
I’m currently using the standard USB cable supplied by Benchmark with the DAC/preamp and available separately from their website. Generally, I’ve found Benchmark an excellent supplier of high-quality, reasonably-priced, and snakeoil-free cables: I’m also using Benchmark XLRs between the DAC/preamp and amp and Benchmark speaker cables with Nutrik connectors at the amp and locking bananas at the speakers. Alternative suppliers of cables I’ve also used and trust include Bluejeans Cable out in Seattle and Audioadvisor’s Pangea cables (though in the case of the latter, only the Cardas-copper based variants). I’d include URLs, but Google will get you to all of these easily enough.
Sounds like you’re on your way. Enjoy it!
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With a little i3 NUC, a Chord Mojo, and a little 2Tb Samsung SSD I manage to get great sound out of my existing system. My Bluesound Vault 2i was great to have as I transferred 2500 CD’s to disk; it now serves as a great backup. The only thing I sometimes miss by bypassing a player is remote volume control which isn’t an option when going direct to the Mojo.
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Thanks for that info.
Bill…The NAS is on it’s last legs anyway. A new SSD will arrive next week, which I will put into the Nucleus. Just as a point of interest, why does the Nucleus hate the NAS?