ROCK will be here to stay, that I’d be sure of. I see the Titan in the same way Leica makes special editions of their cameras. They of course get lambasted for it by some users, but at the end of the day, whether they sell all or just a few (and they usually sell them out), it’s money in the bank as other then the cosmetics, the rest is a fait accompli. Same with the Titan - other than some 3D modeling of the chassis, there’s probably not that much R&D involved, so whether they sell a few or a little, it’s money in the bank for them that wouldn’t be there otherwise.
I understand your thinking, but in this this case I believe it offer’s value to Roon and the end user at the same time.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, but i do feel that Rock genuinely makes Roon easier for the support team to manage and support.
Controversial comment time… Maybe Roon should charge extra to people who are not using Rock 
I think people who buy a ready made Roon package at Small Green Computer need very little support here at the forum. I think most support need people who run into problems with self installations. But then, I might be wrong.
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All hardware will be manufactured and branded Harman-Roon or licensed as such. There is no upside (profit) in supporting the myriad plethora currently in play, support nightmare as well. Your control point will be a laptop, tablet, mobile phone, this is how the large majority of Audio devices are designed currently.
Just another option. But this is how I would do it.
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I have often thought this, but Roons income mostly comes from user’s paying monthly or annually (and lifetime) and they want to use what they have. To my mind it’s a long road out of the place where we currently reside
I wasn’t trying to come up with answers, just expand the thought process and I appreciate that you and @miklats are doing the same 
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It’s behaviour like that which will see me hit the eject button out of principal, I’d write the rest of my years sub off.
Roon is already seen as elitist, wrongly IMO, they should be drawing new subscribers in not pushing them away.or making it more difficult to start with Roon.
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Sounds like a really bad idea.
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I typo, meant opinion. I have just been thinking how the space seems to be moving, are the subscriptions really the target for ROI that would satisfy Harman? These hardware solutions would provide two income generating streams. BluOs, Denon-Marantz, Eversolo have a completely different approach. Lifetime subscribers are potentially more of a liability than asset? Hopefully the new hardware would have the same capabilities to deliver the same stellar performance with a few different price points.
That’s untrue, completely, on so many levels.
All the Linux distros and Linux apps, foss software usually lack value to people?
What about charities that rely on license free software?
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Roon isn‘t a charity. They are a company , now a harman branch, that needs to make profits.
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All of our hobby is nowhere on anybody’s radar, have you done an unscientific research study among your friends and kids? I just asked a DJ at a party last night if he had heard of Roon……nope! Some younger folks have heard of Tidal, none of them use it. Quboz? You might as well speak Martian language.
Harman I’m pretty certain didn’t invest with the goal of supporting a micro niche market at a loss. Just my opinion/ guess based on running a business for around 30 years. If we couldn’t do it in a profitable manner I would take a hard pass.
I certainly respect your opinion @Grasshopper and everybody else’s 
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Yes. That is why Roon charges a monthly or yearly subscription fee already. Why charge on top of that for Rock and alienate people? IMO it is already factored into the subscription.
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I didn’t say it was, I responded to your comment:
“Usually something that is free lacks value for people”
I would say there are plenty of people who value free things, on all levels not just software.
Last year I bought a new-in-box 2018 Mac mini with plenty of RAM that I configured it as a device only for Roon. Like the new Nucleus, it delivers bit perfect playback and has both USB A&C connections.
The mini is set for streaming to Roon Bridge configs in my office and my living room.
Unlike the Nucleus, the mini offers only one HDMI output, but it delivers audio and video, so I keep it connected through an AVR for display on my 65" Sony panel. Using a speaker switch, this then becomes my AV output for 5.1 files.The Nucleus has two HDMI outputs, both audio only.
I truly hope the Roon/Harmon relationship is successful. But if it is, they will have to succeed without my purchasing a really expensive device that actually does less than the one I have now.
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And what the hell is wrong with my 2012 MAC Mini. 
Lemme see…It runs on 12VDC, Totally quiet…has 2… 2 Gig SSD’s inside the case, one for Digital library and one for back up. All controllable from either my iPad or iPhone… …Would not trade it for two Titans…,.
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Only in exclusive mode. Don’t forget this in Settings.
This not a limitation of the Nucleus hardware but the fact ROCK has no graphics drivers loaded so it can’t output a video signal beyond the terminal login screen. You could load Windows on the Nucleus and get same functionality of audio+video. I’m not sure why anyone would do this but I wanted to point out it was possible.
Agreed.
Use cases are different and this is absolutely something Harmon needs to remember. The why I use Roon has a lot to do with my ability to put it on my hardware. You provide good evidence of why the Roon model, being able to download their stuff, is really really important.
And that was pretty civilised Larry
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I’ve bought my 2014 Mac Mini brand new back then for around 900 Euro if I remember correctly. Only added a 250 gb Samsung SSD and an USB 3.0 enclosure to connect it to my Mac Mini.
Granted it might not be the fastest solution to run a Roon Server. But it works flawlessly. No way I am going to spend 5k on a Nucleus.
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I’ll take this a step further and add Linux to the list. I’d replace the current Linux install option with a ROCK docker image. This would be the solution for NAS devices and custom Linux builds.
Roon can’t currently support their product. In its current form, I don’t think the economics support standing up an actual, functioning support organization. Somehow, they have to simplify something to make the product easier to evolve and easier to support. I’m sure this is contentious but reducing the supported platforms could be a component of that.
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You’ve created a false dichotomy. ROCK isn’t any more or less free than Roon software on Mac/Windows/iPhone/Android/… Roon is a subscription/licensed product. People who pay a monthly, yearly, or lifetime fee to use the software do so under the impression that they are paying for the software necessary to use the product. To me, at least, suggesting that Roon charge for ROCK is no different than suggesting that they charge extra for the Windows version.
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