Thanks very much for the reply. I guess I’ll go ahead with my BIOS update and Rock installation.
You can just go ahead - I did the same some weeks ago without any issues - just remember to enable Legacy and disable UEFI.
I’ll probably buy a NUC8 of some sort. Maybe a Cirrus7 if I do not find a nice enough chassi to build one myself.
Overall I’m disappointed at Roon for not being transparent about the roadmap for their Nucleus and for NUC8 support in general. I do understand that they (Roon) do not want to be stuck in the upgrade path – but the fact is that as soon as they built the Nucleus on existing hardware they automatically got stuck. Just as Apple got stuck as soon as they switched to Intel. Suddenly they were playing in the same field as “normal PCs”.
There is no chance I’m paying for the Nucleus i7 knowing the hardware is almost two years old. I like the looks, the convenience and I have the money to burn. But still; no chance I’m paying premium for less. At least when premium is three times (!!) the price for worse performance. I’m better of underclocking a NUC8 than using a NUC7 any day of the week and I challenge anyone to explain why the 7 would be a better choice. Nucleus makes Apple look cheap (in a bad way – for Nucleus).
For me Nucleus is and has always been a strange product. I can find next to no information about it here at Roonlabs.com and even less about the future development of this product. The linear power supply has been mentioned since over a year or more and still no official news. It’s almost like it’s not developed by Roon at all. That’s at least how it feels trying to find information about it. And the idea of selling Nucleus for an extra 25% (or more) at Hifi dealers is one of the worst ideas I have ever encountered. It’s worse Technics building “smart speakers” with CD. It’s the future for people stuck in the past. And Roon doesn’t even need to cater for the old in the same sense that Technics does – but somehow they still do.
Anyways, I’m going NUC8 or abandoning Roon altogether. Probably NUC8 for 2019 and then I’ll see how things develop. This lack of roadmap and communication is why I would rather pay 10 years of Roon than ever being a lifetime member.
/End of rant
I went ahead, updated the BIOS and installed Rock on my NUC yesterday and left it overnight to catalogue my 2000 odd albums on my NAS. Today I signed on to Tidal and have been extremely impressed by how Tidal is integrated within the control app.
In fact, I can quite honestly say that I have been blown away by the all round performance of Roon, and I have to admit that this wasn’t something I was expecting. I purposely selected a pretty high spec 8th gen NUC on the basis that it would be powerful enough to be used for something else if Roon wasn’t to my liking. No chance of that now. I will be shortly taking out a lifetime subscription to Roon. Everything about it impresses me more than I had anticipated.
I prefer the Roon as a simple control app over my previous favourites (Linn Kazoo for Windows or mconnectHD for MQA replay), and the additional features such as instant access to composer details, lyrics where available etc etc are a very worthwhile bonus on top.
Finally for now, I have been hugely impressed by Tidal MQA masters through Roon to both of my systems (Linn Klimax on one, Sonore microRendu/Chord Hugo on the other). I also have an MQA enabled DAC (Mytek Brooklyn+) which I had been using to experiment with MQA, and whilst I felt there was some added value from the use of MQA. The thing that has really surprised me (and I know this will be very controversial) is that I have been more impressed by the Roon 1st unfold of MQA through my Klimax and Hugo than I have been by the full unfold using mconnectHD with my Brooklyn+.
Thanks to everyone who helped out with my questions.
IMO, it’s mostly targeted at an affluent customer — someone who’s not especially comfortable with computers — purchasing an entire system at a high-end audio store. It provides a practical way for the audio retailer to include Roon in a turnkey system.
Certainly, a Nucleus or Nucleus+ purchaser is going to pay a steep premium, mostly because of the channel through which those boxes are sold and the volume in which they’re sold, but one of the nice things about Roon is that people can put together Roon-centric audio systems at various levels of complexity and price depending on their “needs,” aptitudes, and budgets (down to a certain point that’s not so low).
Well put, but there is a market for the Nuclei, and they help to grow the Roon user base beyond a core group of computer geeks. Not much different in this respect from some of the expensive high-end (but turnkey) Roon endpoints.
“people stuck in the past” = “old people”
Look here, you whippersnapper, watch who you’re calling old now… I’ll have you know that I have been around since the discovery of fire and I still know how to put together a NUC running ROCK.
Honestly, these youngsters…
My “rant” about this is fuelled a lot by my experience with trying to get friends and other people I talk to understand Roon.
For all of them (receny around 10 people liking audio and spending between €1500-€6000 on a system) they think it sounds complex and a hassle. None of them are over 40 years of age. All quite good with computers, some with experience of putting together gaming rigs.
When it comes to hifi they want plug and play. They want automatic updates. They want to buy the service and trust it. Simplicity. But they do not want to spend €1500+ on a server.
They buy most things online. They almost never go in to a hifi store. They trust friends and internet searches over sales persons. The thing is: these people are the majority and as of now Roon excludes them. On the software side but also very much because of “the sense” of complex hardware or very expensive hardware.
I hope Roon goes out and does some user research about Nucleus now that time has gone by and they can evaluate the product better.
Back at it, huh?
Happy to show you my Medicare card to prove I’m not a whippersnapper.
Right. So what they need to do is buy a NUC and install ROCK on it. That’s what I’ll be doing whenever my current Roon core, an 8-year-old Mac mini, dies. I’m guessing that’ll be within the next year. Unless a NUC8i7 (or 9i7, I guess) with a 15W TDP surfaces before the time comes, I’ll probably get this or similar:
Yes, but still not “plug and play”. There is a reason PC’s have OS preinstalled. I know it’s easy but I’m not a normal customer. The threshold for “smooth” and “easy” is kind of low.
Maybe?.. depends what I’m back at in your opinion. For me it’s a discussion. I understand that all things close to “negative” or “criticism” are frowned upon. But I still hope that as long as arguments are provided and the tone is kept at nice enough one is still able to express his or her mind. No?
Oh, no problem.
This seems like the same discussion as here, and the responses are going to be the same.
That’s not true. For the record, when you criticize the Nucleus to me, you are preaching to the choir. I would never buy one myself, but there are people on this forum, who are as down in the Roon weeds are one can get, who feel that Nucleus has its own value.
That’s not going to change, no matter how impassioned the ‘rant’ (your description; not mine).
So use an existing Mac or Windows machine? Or buy a new one (for more money)?
Installing Roon and onboarding is pretty darned easy under Mac or Windows.
During the course of this discussion, it occurred to me that some enterprising person/company might be able to do okay selling NUCs with ROCK preinstalled. Not for me — I don’t want the ongoing support tsuris.
I’d love to make a product for your friends… but I’m not sure what that is. A Nucleus for $200 wouldn’t do it either. Hell, your friends probably don’t even want to spend the $10/mo on the Roon experience. Many of mine sure don’t.
As for Nucleus, there are many thousands out there, and more and more are being installed every month. The growth curve is spectacular and it shows no sign of slowing. It’s not our core business, but it’s a great auxiliary add-on.
My main point is that Roon — in order to be prosperous — needs to provide a lower or cheaper option that is as simple as the Nucleus. Going the route of traditional merchants is the easy, but expensive, way.
If the aim is to attract only the hifi heads with deep pockets or the potentially somewhat tech savvy I get it. The market defiantly big enough for Roon to live in this space.
But even though I work in an industry with high average salary I know no one who considers Roon as an option. Mostly because of mentioned reasons. And many of these people have already spent more on speakers or sound systems than most.
Since I like Roon as software and service I find it a bit sad that so much of the market is out of reach with current “strategy”.
It constantly amazed me how many people on this forum are more knowledgeable about roon business plans, company goals, profit margins, marketing, distribution matrix and supply chain, dealer and customer profiles than the people who actually own and run the business.
Roon is a very successful business in a niche market appealing across the spectrum from custom install with Crestron to hobbyists with a laptop and a raspberry Pi. To dismiss this by putting “strategy” is doing them a disservice, at the least.
@ged_hickman1 – while you are right on our business standing, there are a lot of Roon members that are successful business men/women themselves, and I welcome their feedback.
Obviously it takes time and energy to really think out and convey a good strategy, so if someone does it, we listen. It would be silly not to hear it out. Even Nucleus came to be due to the feedback from these types of Roon members.
Yes, there is a lot of noise, but that’s to be expected.
What existing Mac or Windows machine? Most people now a days, where I live and work, do not necessarily own a computer. It’s provided by the work place and not always ok to install software. And no one that isn’t dedicated to gaming owns anything else than a laptop. So for them to open up and keep the laptop connected to the mains just to listen to music is just not sustainable.
Cloud based Nucleus or a Nucleus Mini as POC sold straight from Roon Labs would be smooth options.
Just saying. And no, I don’t expect getting any further than this in this discussion
How do you do that, though? Is there really a reasonable price point that could achieve this?
I’m not at all sure that above a certain requisite amount of disposable income, the reason many folks aren’t interested in Roon has anything to do with price or plug-and-play-ness. It’s just that they don’t care that much about how they listen to music. For many, many music lovers, a smartphone with the pack-in earbuds or the sound system in their car (or if you’re my wife, the CD player in a Bose Wave radio)* is absolutely fine.
*She likes the Discovery Z3 in the kitchen, though. And she’s happy to let me deal with the Roon stuff.