The music kit API cannot be used to integrate the service with apps or hardware that have their own player server architecture. Its for extensions of their service only and it has to use their player architecture it’s very limited in scope overall and not suited for adding it as service like Tidal or Qobuz.
Apple Music’s interface is so terrible. If I search for a song, the desktop version only gives me 38 results (for any song). I select the ones I want to add to a playlist… nope, gotta do it one at a time.
It’s a shame, because they have the best catalog, and have now gone CD-quality, and have excellent curated playlists. So Roon working with Apple Music would be amazing.
Since that’s not gonna happen, my next hope is Roon mobile.
And since that may never happen…
I’m back on spotify (for mobile, still Roon at home).
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Yes, for its all-singing all-dancing integration. But, really, what services would do this? Only the desperate ones, I’d think, squeezed by the majors. What is it that Roon integration of a streaming service really does for that service, after all?
Perhaps Roon could consider having multiple levels of integration, spanning the spectrum between full Tidal and Internet radio stations, streaming services which Roon already integrates without the onerous full data dump.
That would be horrible. Isn’t there enough half-assed software out there as it is? Don’t need Roon heading down that path. Better that Roon focuses on improving current software and fully/officially adding more streaming partners/services. Besides, most APIs from streaming services aren’t worth utilizing anyway.
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I agree it could be improved… I won’t be surprised if there’s a significant Apple Music app UI update coming, when, I don’t know but it may be coming perhaps with iOS 16?
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Hello Blusound as a prime example of how bad APIs generally are.
Please no. If you want that level of crap, then you have it already with BluOS, why ape what is really not pleasant to use at all. I am sure there are other ways around the full data dumps they currently require but you would loose the features it allows it to bring. You can have an integrated library without, Innuos have shown that with 2.0 of their OS. But Is it as fully featured and allow you to curate the content from Qobuz in the same way as your own stuff. No it doesn’t but it does show integration can be done well and not as the expense Of missing music and have constant late new releases.
Pretty much agree with you. Spotify’s use of playlists for discovery and personalization is unparalleled.
I tried Apple for a while, just didn’t like the apps.
I did go back for a spell on Spotify, but i do notice the quality difference vs Tidal. My daughter uses Spotify so i have that sub anyway. Will be very interested to see their HiDef roll out.
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TL;DR Good point. I gave up.
My use case in case anyone at Roon is bored and wants to read it:
I paid for Roon. That’s done. My Qobuz Sublime annual runs out in December. My Spotify and Apple Music family subscriptions continue monthly because my kids and my wife and I can’t agree to pick just one…
I won’t continue to try to keep 3 or 4 copies of my library synced any more. My Roon + Qobuz integration was nice for listening to lossless and hi-res sources and diving down into the artist rabbit hole, but I was tied to my home system to listen to it. Qobuz sucks as a portable music app and Roon isn’t portable at all. With Apple’s move to lossless and hi-res and my Fiio Q3, I get that at home and away. The next-to-last reason for having Roon at all is gone. The last reason is the great UI and metadata, but I can get some fraction of that with Apple Music’s metadata, and I only really did Roon’s deep metadata for an even smaller fraction of my listening time.
Roon’s functional quirks (search, playlists, ratings, Boolean logic) made it so using Roon was never the easy pleasure it was supposed to be for me. I’m no longer willing to overcome even that small hurdle to use Roon.
I hope Apple Music support, even if not full integration, happens in the future. But that tiny candle of hope has just about gone out. And I’m all out of matches.
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Good summary @Jeff_Bellune, I think many Roonies with no or limited local storage feel the same way.
It is never 100% Roon, it is Roon + using an app for on the go, or other services for family members.
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When access to great music itself was outclassed by metadata, integration issues, etc…., that suppose to be just supportive data for further music exploration, but music is not accessible in first place, it’s not longer a music-centric software.
I feel Roon hijacked my way to music enjoyment if I 100% rely on Roon, so when I looking for new streamer, Roon Ready is important, but tidal/Spotify/Airplay compatibility on same machine new equally important to me as much as Roon Ready
Good Day: what is the status of this? Bryston has added Apple Music to their excellent new Preamp/ streamer BR-20 which is linux based so this should now be possible with Roon as well? 24/192 Alac based…
Where do you see this? I only read about its newsletter suggesting the use of iPad running Apple Music as a source to the USB DAC of BR-20 via Apple CCK.
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There is no status it’s not possible with the API for any streamer or server based software to incorporate Apple Music. It’s for companion apps on phones and tablets nothing more.
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Well, SONOS has an Apple Music implementation in it… A pretty lame one but nonetheless.
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They are a special case Apple worked with them like they have for the Porsche for the first electric car they pick and choose who they want and Sonos is the perfect bed partner they lead the way for streaming in the home and are very much like Apple in this regard.
But the standard APi is of no use nor ornament as it requires their player it does not allow playback through you own player architecture. This has been confirmed by Naim, it will be the same for Roon. It only allows playback via Apple Music app or thier API player which you can build into your own player design in web and apps but it’s not using your own player tech so no RAAT etc. They don’t allow you to hold their data either in other apps which Roon does.
So it’s great fit for apps that add a different front end to the service there is one for classical users and allows you to search , add .and play from Apple Music library but not much more. It’s a window. In and isn’t storing anything from Apple Music. Apple music app needs to be present on the device for authentication to so rules out streamers etc and Apple musics player under the hood. Same goes for Spotify there is something similar for that that helps you find classical music , this is what’s the webapi have been designed for they are not for integrating the service into existing hardware or as a service to an existing app. This is just how it is currently, based on whats being shown and available Future might be different and they might be doing other deals in the quiet but I doubt you will see it past a few other things they seem are right or give them kudos.
Understood on the implementation and that the available open API is not enough. My point was simply that Apple has produced this type of integration to some degree. So has Spotify with SONOS.
But now times are different. Spotify much rather you use their app and stream via Spotify Connect so that they can capture all of your usage data - not just what you end up playing but everything else: playlists, favorites, actions on the screen, etc. Spotify connect is brilliant in this regard.
As a side note here… Apple has gone in a different direction: Airplay is the only means to play to another device, and it has the disadvantage that your source device is always in the playback chain - unlike Spotify Connect or ChromecastAudio. They made this choice because multiroom play is higher in their priority list - you cannot do multiroom with either Spotify Connect or ChromecastAudio. The only exceptions I know of is cases where the target device then does its own sound distribution such as SONOS or a setup where Spotify is running on a computer then routed to Airfoil for multiroom Airplay.
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How about working with Apple to integrate Apple Music (which now streams lossless up to 24/192 Alac). Yes you can use airplay but that is like a step backwards reducing quality.
Have you searched the forum ???
This has been discussed ad nauseam , it is unlikely that Apple will provide the necessary data to allow Roon to proceed
Search and you find several threads …
There is one 4 threads down
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