It may not be apples to apples. You should make sure you disable any and all processing - including any volume adjustments - in both Roon and LMS player. LMS has a volume gain setting, and the player I’m using (piCorePlayer) has some ALSA mixer settings also.
Long ago made sure no dsp etc etc was applied to either. Not my first rodeo (audio). ![]()
Next step would be to play some test signals and measure the analog output level from the DAC, to see if you get the same thing. If it maches, then you need to make sure you compare the exact same sources every time. If that’s done, and you still hear a difference, then, in the absence of a blind test, I’ll write it off as a subjective impression.
I was hoping that some of the nay sayers would try the roon/squeeze setup I described. It is very easy and lms/squeezelite is free. It seems the critics just go through their list of bit perfect, volume mismatch etc, etc without trying it themselves. Believe me, those who have heard a difference have already tried everything they could because who wants to leave roon with it’s fantastic gui and search because of sound issues.Can we explain it throughmeasurements? No. But we hear it.
As Marian has said, take the analog output of your DAC, input that back into your computer and record the output in REW. Post your resulting graphs here for both scenarios, then we’ll have something concrete to discuss.
What have you got to lose? To use your words “it is very easy and … is free”. If you see a difference, then you’ll have a receptive audience in helping you diagnose where the difference is occurring in your setup between the two scenarios.
If the graphs are the exactly same, then you’ll also have your answer.
Don’t you need to prove it? Maybe people don’t care enough.
Nope…… already proven to me. Just posting here in case others wanted to give it a try. I’m happy to go on listening to music. Please post your findings as it is all interesting.
suit off. Prog On!
Because you hear a difference and you don’t want to leave Roon, you have more of an interest in trying to prove this than me.
If you’re not interested then you’re not interested, enjoy the music.
I have to be brutally honest: I left Roon because of the abysmal sound quality. I was doing my quarterly check to see if by chance the people at Roon acknowledge that there was a sound quality issue and they have now fixed it so I can subscribe again. The interface is beautiful. That’s the reason why I keep checking, hoping that it’s been fixed. The thing is for an audio product, the proof is in the sound quality. If I could describe it to you, it would be Roon sounds muffled, almost like you’re listening to an AM radio station. Mind you I believe my setup is resolving: LUMIN T2, Michi X5 Integrated, B&W 702 S2. No, I don’t know how all the bits go from one place to the next but I can tell you this the free Logitech Media Server through snake oil sounds amazing. In fact, you can change the players and get a different sound. There’s the MPD player, Clementine, each claim bit perfect transmission, but they each sound very different. The MPD player being my favorite you can hear the slightest touch on a guitar from the recording. I tried Audirvāna great player as well, but the interface is still needs a little bit more work, however, the sound quality is amazing end it doesn’t cost as much nearly as much the Roon. I also tried Euphony, but after the person who runs it snapped at me for asking a question I decided not to use the copycat LMS service.
I can’t justify paying more than the actual music service just to have an interface that makes the audio sound terrible. Now you can tell someone to plug their DAC into a windows computer and tell them the sky is orange, but they’re going to tell you it just sounds different. It just doesn’t make sense to me that all the other players sound lively. I don’t understand why everyone is so touchy about this subject instead of being objective and demanding a resolution, this service is very expensive. I’m writing this, hoping that the folks that are bashing those that question the sound quality to objectively experiment with another service, you don’t have to cancel Roon just try it out. You can both love Roon and everything that it has to offer (the beautiful user interface, the integration, the library management, the ARC) all are great things which I love myself. However, the sound quality has to be fixed in order for me to come back. It’s OK to find areas of improvement and still love the product. It’s the difference between one cell phone company versus another, cable versus satellite TV, fiber versus cable Internet, I mean, it’s the same bits coming in through the connection, then why is there a difference consumers notice.
There’s nothing “objective” about what you call “experiments”. Just do a double blind ABX test and any imagined SQ differences between Roon and Audirvana etc. will immediately prove inaudible.
Not too long ago, I tested on a RME ADI2 DAC, using their test files via Roon.
The files were on the NUC ROCK, streamed to the RME USB input via another NUC with Windows11 and Roon bridge.
All the files were recognised as bit perfect.
I can’t see how any more lossless than this it can be.
I made exactly the same tests. With Roon (exclusive mode, where possible) the test was always positive.
Just now, because of interest, I played one song through Roon and through Tidal connect. Tidal connect is 1-2 dB louder. Measured with a stupid app on the iPhone.
Beside that I hear no difference. But maybe my system is not resolving enough.
Lots of people tried it. In no properly controlled test, ever, had any difference been observed. What people convince themselves they hear in sighted experiments is not really worth wasting any time on.
It’s not, actually, or you would not be so opposed to finding out for real. But… people do not want to find out that their eears aren’t really that golden…
THere is nothing to fix
Because there isn’t. There’s a belief among some people that blowing too much money on a “resolving” (generally, meaning “distortion worse than a 1930 car radio”) system gives them hearing superpowers, but it has nothing to do with any real differences in sound, which can not exist due to laws of nature.
Comparing using Rock Rock vs uPNP from my NAS through Mosaic on my dCS Rossini Apex + Clock. No easily discernible / repeatable difference IMO.
The system is resolving - dCS front end - MBL 9008a monos and 101e mk2 speakers with 2 x REL carbons special subs - Townshend suspension on everything.
Well, I do run Squeezebox*, and there’s no difference sending the same stream to my DAC via Ropieee. Volume aside, both sound the same, but that’s my expectation, since there is no rational reason for there to be a difference.
Some time ago, there was a discussion here about FLAC files ripped from the same CD, but different rippers, sounding different from one another. I listened carefully to both files, and it was easy to discern differences where none existed (it was proven that both files were identical.) I don’t doubt that you heard something, but don’t trust your ears, as they aren’t infallible.
*Now Roon doesn’t require an always-on internet connection, I have little use for Squeezebox now.
I don’t think it’s the Roon fanboys – it’s the reality fanboys.
Reasoned? There was no reasoning in those posts. Just your statements about things – and we have no way of knowing whether they’re even actual opinions, or just marketing blather.
I appreciate the bind Hi-Fi dealers must be in these days. There’s no real SQ improvement to be had over the cheap stuff anyone can buy via the mail. Where’s the dealer’s margin to come from? It must be like selling furniture these days, all about the cabinetry and workmanship and marketing.
Why waste time checking that the laws of physics still haven’t changed? Really boring.
No, it’s not. Really not. Who cares what various random strangers imagined they heard? Really boring. Like watching a lava lamp. But do a proper experimental design, then post the results, and that might be interesting.
Wouldn’t it be easier if everyone who doesn’t understand TCP/IP, Digital Streaming, Networking etc but criticizes Roon & others for “sound quality” just got out to the closest decent hifi-dealer, bought an expensive record player, and closed themselves up in the analog world where similar discussions have their merit.
It’s boring to read this stuff.
Yeah, somehow that “night and day” difference that the wife hearts from the kitchen suddenly becomes too elusive because “testing is stressful” or something.
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