DAVE v MAY, only one will survive

Absolutely not.

Dave alone is still doing crazy digital filtering internally.

M-Scaler just replaces Dave’s WTA1 with another WTA1 with more taps!

Do a refresher read of the DSP in Chord Dave (alone!) , this interview with JA and Rob Watts:

Chord Electronics DAVE D/A processor | Stereophile.com

You cannot fully bypass all of Dave’s DSP. This goes against Rob Watts “raison d’etre” :grinning:

In fact what you propose is the ultimate in :apple: vs :tangerine: but becomes less so if (just an example) you have May in NOS mode and do software based DSP like HQPlayer. But then you may as well do the full Chord stack vs May+HQP for the ultimate showdown.

I should add, I know a lot of people love the Holo DACs in NOS mode with no digital filtering done at all anywhere.

Even if that’s not for me, I respect them, if that’s what they enjoy best.

Life is short. Enjoy whatever makes you feel good !

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Yes of course it’s certainly true that the Dave doesn’t do NOS and is a completely different beast than the May. The point of my “apples-to-apples” baseline was how does each DAC perform with the simplest/raw input at the same rate. That was the “apples-to-apples” part. I get your point but if you take it to the extreme then the only true apples-to-apples comparison would be HQP doing sinc-M at 768 vs MScaler. That’s as close as the two systems can get. And was my 2nd thought for a baseline test.

Yes but only for DAVE in PCM mode.

There is no decimation happening in DAVE for DSD playback if you change it to DSD mode.

However, M Scaler outputs PCM anyway, so M Scaler users should set DAVE to PCM mode with M Scaler in the chain. If it is removed from the chain, and if one wants the best DSD playback, they should change the DAVE back to DSD mode.

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Yes I personally go back and forth between upsampling in HQP vs only using the noise shaper down to 20 bits. It’s not so clear-cut to me. (measurements aside).

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Definitely sounds like @dtich will have a lot of fun listening to music while comparing all these different combinations.

Regarding “only one will survive” why not leave the door partially open to keeping all the gear :crazy_face:

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Oh, that door is painfully, glaringly, open… I feel so … weak. :smiley:

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I’d make a purchasing decision based on each of them being fed straight red-book material. I’m a big HQPlayer fan, if internal filters can be bypassed, bonus.

Ok. Initial impressions… the DAVE is two months in, the MScaler a couple weeks added in… the May is two days old.

I’ll lead with the current state of affairs. I switched over to the May two days ago and have been listening to all the same albums I’ve been on for the last month – they run the gamut like my tastes, a sampling of the acts/tracks played today: Steely Dan, Nick Drake, Taylor Swift, Bob Dylan, Yo-Yo Ma, Anne-Sophie Mutter, Beck, Paul Simon, Norah Jones, k.d. Lang, Angelique Kidjo, Lyle Lovett, Nickel Creek, Miles Davis, Carter Burwell, Woodentops, Junun soundtrack, Jenny Lewis, Glenn Gould…

The DAVE was amazing. Mind blowing. The detail, the dynamics, the cleanness… incredible. Add the MScaler and it got… twice as good? Hard to quantify, undoubtably, immediately better, but… how much, five thousand dollars worth? Not sure. But blacker blacks, more detailed soundstage, which was already amazing. Definitely a step up, from great, to… really great?

The May. Let me just say, after 4 or 5 songs I considered that there was a distinct possibility I’d never switch the thick, balanced outputs cables back to the DAVE. The difference was not night and day, they are both simply fantastic units, they single-handedly have made the biggest difference in my system I’ve ever experienced. In a way, more even than new speakers. I wouldn’t have assumed this. The May compared to the DAVE is slightly warmer, not colored, but… less clinical. The difference I think I’m hearing is that the DAVE has a pretty sharp attack on micro and macro transitions, it does not sound bad, but it is… crisp? The May is… rounder? Not smeary, or less detailed, but more… oh, this over-used epithet: musical. The May is easier, a bit more effortless somehow. They both have gripping dynamics, the DAVE grabs you quick, the May holds you tight, subtle but there are differences. It’s audible, but more than that it’s feel-able. I immediately felt like I could listen for days and days with the May. Some tracks that sounded clear and clean but somewhat clinical and deconstructed through the DAVE were coherent and flowing through the May. With both you can easily pick an instrument and follow it through the shifting tempos and dynamic mixing… with the May all the detail seemed there, some newly heard timbres even (the slight nasalness in Norah Jones gorgeous voice was readily apparent, just another layer) but the track adhered in a smoother way. The soundstage on the MScaler/DAVE is phenomenal… and slightly bigger even and more interesting on the May, believe it, or not. My jaw was somewhat perpetually dropped the last couple days.

The bottom line is… and I’m not done ‘testing’, haven’t even delved into OS on the May (…do I even need to, doesn’t feel like it…) the May is more inviting, more comfortable. No less detail. No less capable in dynamics and in fact the bass may sit nicer than the DAVE for the same reason as the upper mids and highs sound slightly clinical – the sharp attack in the micro-dynamics. The slewing at the head of a cymbal or tom hit, the start of a trumpet note… both render them superbly but the May may have the … edge, for the lack thereof. This is just to my ears. The truth is these units feel like the digital and analog versions of genius-level DACs. I am playing through an old (but supremely clean and capable) Krell SS amp. If I were listening to a tube amp would the DAVE be a better balance than the May, would the places reverse because the amp stage is warmer and rounder? I don’t know. Context matters, this is for sure. So, I make no grand pronouncements, only what things sound like to my ears in my system. On this day.

I will say… I will have hard time giving up the Chords. And very well may (:smiley: ) not. But one thing is sure, the May is staying.

Much more listening to come. The smile has not left my face for weeks, so… Could. Be. Worse. First world problems. (Seriously, I know how privileged I am, in general and in this year or two in particular. I make sure to meditate on it every day, and act accordingly.)

Associated gear:

Roon Core on Mac mini
Cat6/7 to Ubiquiti networking switches
Lumin U1mini
USB to:
Chord MScaler/DAVE
Holo Audio May (L3)
Balanced analog to:
Classe CT-SSP (analog bypass mode, no DSP)
Balanced analog to:
Krell FPB-400cx
DeVore Fidelity Gibbon X

I am getting close to end of the line. Don’t need or want much better than this… I feel I am there, sitting at the artists’ feet. Mission accomplished.

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Elsewhere I read Chord users loved its imaging / separation. Do you have any comment in this respect switching from DAVE to May? Any obvious difference in soundstage?

Hi Peter, yes, I mentioned the stage widening a bit on the May, which surprised me; I wonder if it’s less deep, but it really didn’t strike me that way. And hasn’t yet. They are both phenomenal imagers. I may have the impression that some specific sounds are marginally easier to pick out on the DAVE, as a result of the edges drawn around things; which may not be a good thing, I’m not sure, I will know more when I switch back to it, which I will in a couple days.

It’s a pleasure to listen to music this way.

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You could PGGB some files and feed the Dave and May usb from Hqplayer. Ditch the mscaler and you have apples


to apples. Set hqplayer to no filters, no dither (shaper) and 0db and you have bit perfect.

Finding this thread very interesting. I own a Spring 2 KTE on one headphone system, I have a May KTE on order for another, and my only Chord experience is the Hugo 2 that I use for outdoors listening. I find Chord’s house style too much of a good thing for headphones, so much detail and such fast edges that after a couple of hours I need to come up for air. With the same headphones, Spring 2 (or even Yggdrasil A2, which is a bit edgier) and a good amp, I can listen for much longer without exhaustion. OTOH, I also have on order a new speaker system that sounds closer to Chord house style (Linn Klimax DSM with Organik DAC+ATC SCM40A actives) than to my favored headphone systems. Speaker listening asks for precision, headphone listening asks for ease. But maybe the May does both…

I’ve used a Spring 1 for about 4 years and am seriously considering a May. I feed it DSD 256 from HQPlayer (7EC modulator, ext2 filter).

All I can say is that if you like the May in NOS, wait till you feed it from HQP. You’ve still got things to hear.

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@dtich just to confirm, all your Holo May impressions written above are in NOS mode?

@dabassgoesboomboom That is correct.

Have not started uprezzing it. I have listened to DAVE both NOS and thru MScaler (full uprez - 784kHz). And haven’t dealt with DSD yet. That’s next.

Fabulous. Looking forward to hearing. I sense two camps out there on this front, interested to see where I fall.

Yes, will implement HQP for that. Atm I don’t have a way to feed the same USB as I don’t think the Lumin will let both USB outs be the same signal to two different DACs (Peter?), and also don’t have a 4x2 xlr switchbox for instant compare, which I’m interested in, but not overly distracted about doing it. I’m not, after all, a testing vlog, I’m just a guy with gear he’s checking out. So, my memory is sufficing, and I’m aware this method is prone to mistaken impressions. But, I’m very experienced at professional sound mixing and sound comparison is part of my mental toolbox. Still, I will do it eventually as I’m interested in the instant A/B feelings as well.

Yes. Golden Ear I think preferred NOS, but I don’t recall him using HQPlayer, so I think he was just comparing it to the internal OS in the May.

I can’t recall reading a review where someone compares DSD 256 with 7EC modulator and ext2 filter to NOS. I’ve seen one review by someone using PCM upsampling in HQP and they preferred NOS by itself. Reviewers don’t usually seem to have a server that can run the 7EC mod at DSD 256, which is a shame. I’m sure someone will have compared the two on Audiophile Style somewhere.

Amy further impressions?

Will after the weekend. Actually had a relay fail in the Classe (grrrrr, but it is years old to be fair), have to get that replaced. So, no music in this system for the last day or next couple. Seriously tragic as I’m off work atm and all I do is listen to the system when I’m home.

Still on the May. And loving it. Really been deeply engaged in all kinds of music listening, so… that’s the point right? Have not switched back to DAVE, but was actually planning to this weekend… prob have to bump that another week.

Thanks for checking!

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If you’re using May, bypass the pre and use Lumin Leedh Processing Volume before you get the pre repaired. Turn the Lumin volume down to a very low level before you play anything.

If you use DAVE, you may either use the DAVE volume or the Lumin volume. In case of the latter, please set DAVE to 0dB preamp mode instead of fixed -3dB output.