Jussi also said that on his system he probably wouldn’t hear a difference. 
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I don’t think it’s in his best interest to bite any hands that feed him.
A/B it.
You’ll hear it. I wish I didn’t, but it’s undeniable.
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Real evidence no. But I stopped doing comparisons some time ago (although I will load JPlay, but its like 5th thing on my list of things I am working on in my system right now). My theory is based on, when making changes to my system, it was easier to describe those changes using Roon than other software. A cable change, for example, I could better articulate in words what I was hearing with that cable when using Roon vs. other playback chains. So, I started describing Roon as “transparent”. But, some theories are put forth using bad science so… maybe I should really call this personal environment “testing” an opinion. No one needs to subscribe to it.
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This is it!
I most certainly have done it. It is actually not that hard to capture the packets coming into HQP from both Roon and directly from Qobuz. This is my post elsewhere with more details. I can send you detailed steps if you want.
Jussi didn’t say exactly that btw - he is not sure in some situations how Roon processes the data, eg. MP3. But when it’s a standard Flac file with DSP disabled it’s very clear that it’s bit perfect PCM - the exact same PCM data that is in the Flac container that Qobuz sends directly to HQP. The only difference is that Roon is first unwrapping the Flac container in this case.
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I would say it’s not only for local music content that jplay and roon sound different. The difference is there even streaming tidal and qobuz…
Guys please don’t pull jussi into this discussion any further. He’s already provided some information on this based on what he knows. I don’t think he’s in the right spot to comment further on this.
Jplay is just another app out there that some people like. If you don’t hear a difference, that means your wallet is safe. Period.
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I know for certain, that some things some people claim being beyond human hearing threshold are actually audible. So take such claims with grain of salt.
And vice versa, there are audible differences that don’t appear in certain common types of objective measurements.
So I don’t quickly take things as black and white, usually world is just different shades of grey.
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That’s essentially what I am trying to say, there are just so many things out there that can make a difference even if logic suggest otherwise.
Its similar to my recent experience with swapping the master clock of a dac from the Femto Crystek 957 to a Ian Canada SC pure masterclock, I mean I was totally skeptical how anyone can hear a difference from the already excellent Crystek 957 that’s why I ordered only 1 SC pure masterclock at 45Mhz and compare with the Crystek 957 at the 49Mhz side. Hqplayer is fantastic as it lets me AB the 2 masterclocks on the fly simply by switching DSD output rates and to my surprise the difference was huge and now I have ordered the SC pure masterclock at 49Mhz also like I can’t really go back to the Crystek!!!
What you did and what I’m saying are 2 very different things.
If you can’t hear the difference then great, but tons of us do. I don’t want to, but I do. Jplay is more accurate and detailed. Roon has a smoothing effect that in some tracks completely masking subtle notes.
The only altered metric is Roon sitting on the audio stream.
It might be in your system so….
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With all due respect, in this post above Differences between JPlay or Roon into HQP - #71 by Thomas_Rector you literally said “If one could somehow capture what Roon sends to HQplayer then you might be able to see and compare.”
And I responded that in fact I have done that and verified that it’s the same data.
I am not going to tell you that aren’t hearing what you are hearing or that something else isn’t going on in your specific chain, but I will argue back against the idea that Roon is not sending the same PCM data to HQPlayer if you have all DSP disabled.
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Lets not even talk about subtle minor differences. Try a fast pace, more complicated track (with lots going on in the background) say from Pennywise or Bad Religion, the difference goes from you can hear the lyrics in jplay VS you don’t know what they are singing in roon.
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Totally agree with you.
If Roon would be sooo bad to the PCM stream as Thomas Rector is claiming, Jussi would need to put a disclaimer on his website NOT to use Roon for best audio quality.
You are not capturing how Roon decodes what Qobuz sends. Even Jussi is unsure how Roon handles the decoding.
@Daiyama yes in my system of holo red to holo serene Kte to holo May Kte, JPlay iOS is more detailed, more accurate, more realistic, with a larger soundstage and more presence.
It no longer has a smoothing characteristic that I never really noticed was there until it was removed.
I wish it wasn’t so. I’ve invested hundreds of dollars into Roon same as others here.
Not thrilled that JPlay sounds noticeably better. But it does
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Roon gets the same Flac bitstream from Qobuz that HQPlayer gets directly. Roon and HQPlayer use the same Qobuz API. That’s a fact.
But that is somewhat moot because the PCM data inside the Flac container that HQP gets directly from Qobuz is 100% identical to the PCM data that HQP gets from Roon if you disable all DSP. Also a fact.
Sorry but you are overgeneralizing what he has said, and using it as false evidence.
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No one is saying roon is bad. Jplay is cleaner, some folks i talk to prefer roon because it does not sound as clean and perceive as “warmer”.
I suppose if you don’t have tubes in the chain, roon adds a touch of warmth and smoothness that is pleasing to some
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When I asked here was Jussis direct response
“I would need to compare the data Roon sends me with the data I decode from Qobuz. And as I’m not sure how Roon handles the decoding, I would need to do that on all three platforms, if potentially different. And since Roon also gets updates, I would need to retest it periodically. I know what my code does, but I’m not spending a lot of time comparing what Roon sends me…”
That’s not him saying that it isn’t the same under these conditions. Given all of the caveats/platforms/config differences, I don’t think he wants to categorically make statements that will be misconstrued either way. Rightly so.
Again, I have very recently tested this, with RoonServer on Mac OS into HQP on Ubuntu with a 44.1 Qobuz Flac file and DSP disabled. Just one of the many many permutations he would need to test in order to make blanket statements. I don’t know what platforms you use, but I am happy to send you detailed steps if you would like to try and validate if the PCM audio data HQP is getting indirectly via Roon and directly from Qobuz is the same. It requires some networking knowledge and technical chops, but it is doable.
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Thomas Rector is saying that.