I always appreciate a good joke. Just in case if wasn’t a joke: before getting to the “analog reproduction stage”, it’s just data, which is squarely in the IT camp. What electrical noises from routers and switches have to do with D/A conversion of bits that have jumped through a few additional memory buffers, I have no clue.
1 Like
If you own some untra sensitive DACs/streamers like Linn, Naim, or Chord, you will know what I mean (w/o getting into some boring technical details :). Otherwise, some switches (e.g. InnuOS PhoenixNet won’t get sold to anyone).
Jesus Christ on a stick. I can’t even fathom how utterly wrong this statement is. Understand digital. Or get screwed by snake oil dealers for good.
If a piece of equipment is so flawed that somehow noise is getting in over it’s network interface, then it’s utter garbage and isn’t even as well made as your average Oled telly.
P.s. I’d quite like to see makers of “audiophile” network gear go horribly bankrupt and sell nothing to anyone. They’re scam artists of the highest order, and they know it. Their
Job is to extract money from the pockets of those who have no interest in learning why it’s all bollocks.
4 Likes
Boring technical details are what engineers are made of, so please, don’t hold back.
I see. You’re not the “tuner” type of audiophile who tunes bass, richness, tonality,… by everything including power cables, ethernet cables, switches etc. You’re the “noise” guy. Seems you’re somewhere in the middle of both camps. You don’t understand technically basics of how things work and you tend to spend money for snake-oil, but not so much as “tuners”.
Btw. I’m not an IT technician 
I own a couple of Chord DACs and their lack of noise sensitivity is one of the reasons I chose them. Managing to transmit noise from ethernet via a DAC into the analogue audio would just be poor engineering, not ultra-sensitivity.
4 Likes
@wklie how is your streamer sensitive to “electrical noise over ethernet” or EMI or whatever was mentioned here?
I think some people here need to take a step back and a deep breath before pushing on…
Clean up on aisle 4…
3 Likes
Yes, that is a fair point. Chord Hugo 1 is such an example.
Are you sure that you are OK? Naughty, naughty 
I see. You’re the stubborn forum engineer who worships ASR and loves theories, measurements and whining to people who can afford to tweak their audio systems instead of actually listening your own audio system. What a lovely way to approach this hobby, enjoy!
The thing is just like QuinnT said.
People love to think that digital is somehow immune to any flaws since 1 is 1 and 0 is 0 but the cause of differences has nothing to do with data integrity but probably everything to do with electric connections between equipment and side effects caused by that.
10 years ago when I reported audible differences between digital transports, people whined to me that digital transports can’t make an audible difference since 1 is 1 and 0 is 0, everything is filtered, reclocked etc. in the DAC. Well even ASR can tell you they do matter and has even measured the differences. This is obviously not directly related to switches but I know you forum engineers like to think that digital transport is irrelevant also.
Also, never use shielded ethernet cables in your system. This way you form an electric connection between your system and the wall socket or two equipment in the system and this can once again cause an audible difference.
2 Likes
That’s quite an old article given the pace that digital technology moves at. Asynchronous USB is largely a solved problem.
We’re talking about ethernet here which is air-gapped at the ends via isolation transformers, unless of course you use fancy shielded Voodoo Magic Snake-Oil ethernet cables which have a grounded shield. The shield provides a ground link and defeats the air gap between the connected equipment.
If you mix up USB and Ethernet, go back to square one. By the theories like yours we would need voodoo cables to copy a (senseless) high res audio file from one place to the next. Just not to lose quality.
What many people don’t grasp is digital within it’s realm is perfect. Error don’t exist, if so they get corrected, if that ain’t possible the transfer is indicated failed. Way other than in the analog world, whose only theoretical advantage the indefinite resolution (or sampling rate) is. Apart from this everything else is compromised (and voiced - can’t stop laughing) from beginning to end.
On the interface from network to analog conversion some engineering is needed to avoid EMI or similar noise that might(!) have survived the galvanic separation. Leave it to the engineers and not to YouTube opinions. Up to this point you can use any ■■■■■■ China ethernet cable that measure electrically ok. The protocols take care of the rest. Or buy the snake oil stuff and ramble audioquest marketing BS to not look a complete fool.
I don’t even bother to answer you since you obviously can’t read. Have a nice day.
It’s an old article but my point wasn’t to compare usb to ethernet (as I clearly wrote in my previous post). My point was to show that digital improves and where once was thought that differences couldn’t exist, is now shown to exist.
And why say that ethernet cables don’t matter when even you admit that it matters? Just choose regular UTP and they won’t matter, I’m with you there.
I don’t even bother to answer you since you obviously can’t read. Have a nice day.
1 Like
Didn’t last long. Aloha
I tried to tell in my first messsage that data will always travel from point a to b unchanged and that’s not the reason for differences. Then you reply me telling the exact same thing? It’s getting frustrating to read how ethernet is designed error free when that has nothing to do with the audible differences and we all know it already. If you try hard you might just get the point of my first message, good luck. Or maybe reply again telling me how ethernet is error free?
1 Like
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
Christopher Hitchens
(not an answer to previous posts)
2 Likes
They do, in so far as if you choose the wrong type you risk introducing problems. That’s different from different cables “sounding better”, where I know that they don’t matter.
And yes, we both agree, for domestic requirements, regular UTP is all that’s required.
4 Likes