I figured ‘I better tell him it’s a joke’ otherwise this would be you, on the way the nearest dealer!
This thread reminds me of a ridiculous thread on stereo.net.au where punters have written tombs of bull about building an ideal music server, every tweak yielding orgasmic levels of increased sonic pleasure.
Likewise, I’ve been following a thread on the Linn owners section of Hi-Fi Wigwam that enthusiastically extols the amazing SQ improvement of using Cat8 Ethernet cable over Cat7. Predictably, the thread turned into a farce!
I’ve read threads extolling the virtues of good quality power supplies, I’ve bought same with very noteworthy increases in SQ. Same with a managed Network switch.
If I read a reliable source writing about a demonstrable improvement in SQ, I’ll listen and then maybe try.
I guess it gets down to the credibility of the writers. I’ve seen and heard enough to have an open mind. I’ve been repaid for keeping it open.
I was about to post something similar. That I would rather hear austinpop out over just ridiculing the entire concept of computer tweaks. There are knowledgeable folks over there at AS/CA.
The issue I see is that the AS/CA forum thread that austinpop oversees is very deliberate about excluding anyone who wants to think through the logic, science, or engineering of the tweaks. The premise of the thread is that if you don’t believe with your heart don’t come with your brain. (This is an interesting metaphor for many different groups in the world).
I would be interested to see if austinpop can adjust to the different tweaker culture here in the Roon forum – that is, where what he calls “opinions” or “the noise” in his “signal to noise ratio” are unwelcome in the AS/CA thread, that type of questioning and intellectual rigor are more the norm here. The question is, can austinpop come in here, lay out the information and experience he has or that they have, and be patient enough to understand he has to address rather than ban posts from those who want to explore the science or engineering. And that includes delivering data.
Look at it with this analogy. Austinpop is a doctor who volunteered to treat sick people in some developing country. He comes in with his box of western meds but in the course of the year finds out that the patients respond best to some local weed that gets boiled and fed to the patient. After a year of experience with this, he’s convinced the weed is the true medicine of the future. Then he brings it back to the western university and is presenting it to a bunch of scientists and doctors, who are interested in his empirical evidence but insist on seeing the science. They want to know why. They want to understand and discuss side effects. They want a true set of trials and studies. Austinpop gets impatient and calls the scientists and doctors a bunch of flat-earthers and walks out. Because of that, no one benefits - the potential miracle drug is never looked into, and austinpop is seen as a crackpot. Both sides needed to find a way to communicate with the other for everyone’s benefit, but they were too stuck in their own mindset to do so.
So, the question is, if the doctors and scientists are willing to attend the meeting, can austinpop adjust his sensitivities to rigorous query that will naturally include both skepticism and some ridicule, and open a true dialog within the culture here at Roon.
Yep, this is part of my point. I think we ought to be open to non-absurd ideas and tweaks, but tweakers have to be open to other explanations AND to those who want to explore their ideas using western scientific thought rather than techno-mysticism. The scientific thinkers need to be open to the idea they don’t know everything, but the shaman have to be open to the idea that what they know CAN be reduced to science.
Sorry…maybe I just haven’t had enough coffee yet this morning…
How about this nonsense? Point #2 is my favorite.
I suppose you don’t believe the Roon Server partner who underclocks the CPU either?
Ha, more bullsh*t that can’t possibly make any audible difference.
My re-post of your post wasn’t directed at you. I know you don’t believe such nonsense, at least that’s the way it seems.
As far as those who want the fastest CPU and those who underclock the CPU, I say we put them in a torch lit arena and let them fight to the death. It’s the only way to resolve it.
Torches throw off a lot of flicker which interferes with the true assessment of battle-worthiness.
I would agree except when you start reading all the the stuff that he does and how every single time it is a “massive improvement” in sound quality. First it was with the super expensive word clocks. Then with the low latency OS on otherwise noisy hardware.
All credibility is lost because everything sounds better and, no, it cannot be confirmation bias. The fact that he is unwilling to discuss the technical merits of any given new super improvement just makes it worse. That thread on AS is just about the most laughable audio thread on the Internet.
All I’m saying is don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Whether some of the claims are totally ridiculous, there is still a lot of knowledge there.
Just to be on the safe-side, I’m going to replace the i3 in my Nucleus with six hamsters going around in wheels (in parallel of course!) to do the processing.
Let’s face it, they’re bound to contribute far less noise to the network than a piece of silicon, and if I want to underclock them, I can simply tie their hind legs together, for even less noise
Well, it depends on how much bathwater there is. It’s Great Lake’s size now. I would say there is a lot of information there. Knowledge? Sure…but finding it is like searching for a needle in a hay stack.
There was credibility to begin with?
Sounds to me that you imply that the Roon architecture as it is today did not came to be without testing, tinkering or any listening to possible improvements. Personally i would find it very wrong if Roon dev team would not explore avenues for improvement.
I agree but that wasn’t the topic of discussion in this case
What was the topic then? Question asked in ernest by the way.
To summarize, the question started with the title of the thread. Roon basically said “no”, and these are various reasons why that couldn’t be implemented in a good way considering all the balls it has to juggle (multiple users, etc).
After that it devolved into the inevitable “you can’t hear a difference anyway”, and here are the reasons why.
(or at least my translation).
Thanks Scott, sort of my conclusion also after extensive re-reading and trying to understand this thread.
One question i still have: As Roon stated they cache in a steady stream of data, and the dac is fed from the cache. If understood correctly, is that not also " from memory" ? And if not, what is the key difference w.r.t. audio?
I’m not qualified to address this one. Over my head, tech-wise.