For what is worth, I preordered the Innuos ZEN MK3 (I could not afford the ZENith MK3). It should arrive in 1-2 months (I am in US).
When it arrives, I will try it as:
1 - a Core only, with the Roon Ready bridge built in my Ayre QX-5 Twenty (my current Roon player, with NUC i5 BNH ROCK). In this scenario, I will use the ZEN as bridge for Ethernet (router to ZEN, then from Zen to Ayre).
2 - As a Roon endpoint (USB from ZEN to Ayre) and Core
3 - As a LMS / Squeezebox player to Ayre via USB cable and iPeng 9 iPad app
Hi @James_I. In response to your post no.74. This is precisely what I suggested to @BigAIMc in posts 36 and 43.
@BigAIMc, you clearly love the sound of your Zenith feeding your DAC, so it would follow, that you must use the Zenith as your end-point, not use the zenith as core and use another end-point as you have said you already tried. A different end-point would possibly have a different sound signature to the Zenith, that you know and love.
My original suggestion still stands⌠try Roon Core on a PC, a laptop, whatever youâve got lying around (I was suggesting this as a test, so you can borrow a laptop if you havenât got one). Set the Zenith up as an end-point and see if the sound comes up to the quality of LMS.
If it does, you can choose whether you fancy the outlay of a few hundred dollars for a dedicated core or not.
Why does the idea that this is a software request keep getting responded to with suggestions that I buy more hardware?
Iâve tried running Roon Core on my laptop and Roon as player or endpoint on my Zenith. It doesnât sound as good as the Zenith doing both.
One last time before I unsubscribe from this thread in response to the Stepford Wives responses.
The Zenith sounds better on LMS mode because the software is configured to playback from memory. Iâd like Roon to explore doing likewise.
Try to grasp the notion of a software request rather than sending condescending responses telling me Iâm doing it wrong. I understand the Roon architecture. That doesnât necessarily mean they cannot look into this method of improving the SOFTWARE.
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Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
87
You want to buy âaudiophile memoryâ to go with the âaudiophile fusesâ? The marketing copy almost writes itself.
You subjectively believe it sounds better, doesnât mean thereâs actually any difference. Roon have given you a door to open yet you refuse to open it. Instead you persist in the mistaken belief that they should jump right in and investigate because you deem it necessary.
You never mentioned youâd used a laptop for your core and the Zenith as an endpoint.
If youâd mentioned that you had already tried that in response to my post 36 instead of saying -
I would have shut up ages ago. As it stands I will shut up now and bow out of this discussion.
Thanks for your time.
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Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
90
âIgnoredâ is probably a bit much. This is a large complicated software project. Technical meetings about such typically focus on four or five pressing issues, out of possible dozens. Iâd expect an issue about possible optimization outside of the clear architectural path to remain low priority. Not to say ignored, but never to find sufficient headroom in the development process to come to the fore.
No, more damning than that, even if an audible or measurable difference exists, Alan has engaged faulty cause/effect logic to conclude that memory playback is the reason.
No he has not. Alan discussed the matter in person with Nuno Vitorino of Innuos - at the Bristol HiFi show - and Nuno explained in great detail why it was memory playback that made the LMS player sound so much better than Roon.
Innuos are also looking into whether they can figure out how to get the Roon implementation in the Zenith to also use memory playback but are on record saying itâs tricky because of the way Roon behaves. Still kudos to them for listening to and looking into software enhancement requests!
1 Like
James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
93
I might suggest something: instead of insulting all of the people who took the time to respond to your thread, maybe just provide ALL of this information. Without that data the other postersâ questions and suggestions are perfectly valid.
I apologise for losing my cool and for any insulting comments.
And FWIW I do appreciate everyone thatâs taken the time to respond. I got a bit fed up with repeated hardware suggestions despite my repeatedly saying it was a software request. But nonetheless my response was rude and I apologise for it.
And I spoke with Donald Trump, who explained in great detail why he was the sole reason for the US doing so well and being the envy of the rest of the world.
Back to reality. Appeal to authority does not equal proof.
So⌠In order of sound quality, am I right in understanding that, from worst to best youâre saying-
Roon Core on laptop - Roon endpoint (Roon Bridge, not full Roon) on Innuos Zenith
Roon Core and endpoint (Full Roon package) on Innuos Zenith
LMS
Where 1 is worst, 3 is best�
Hmm⌠thatâs interestingâŚ
I would have thought 2 would sound worse than 1 and 1 would sound similar to 3.
Oh well, Iâm sorry to hear that and have nothing more to suggest. I hope,as you say, Innuos come up with a solution, or maybe Roon can dedicate the resources to trying âmemory playbackâ. I thought RAAT with just a fairly simple endpoint connected to the D-A negated the need for that. It appears that somethingâs happening in the LMS implementation on Zenith that makes it really shine.
If you are making a Feature Request, then you should start a new thread under Feature Request. It would certainly get more developer notice than sitting at the bottom of a discussion thread about Memory Playback. Discussion threads are for âback and forthsâ more so than a Feature Request thread. If you would like me to move a particular post to that section to start such a thread let me know and Iâd be happy to help.
That being said, I will weigh in again in case you missed my post further up the thread.
Are you playing to Squeezebox hardware? If not, then I am not sure there is any discussion to be had. Local playback of LMS has always used a software endpoint on the same machine and Roon does not support any software Squeezebox endpoints. Roonâs Squeezebox support is designed for use with actual Squeezebox hardware.
Yes, exactly. 1 sounds worst, 2 is better but 3 is best.
Not really that surprising if you look into the Zenith SE and the lengths Innuos went to in order to create a kick ass low noise server. Including but not limited to the Sean Jacobs designed toroidal linear power supply, a carefully selected motherboard and custom OS that runs only audio services.
Compared to my Lenovo laptop running Windows with no audiophile tweaks it really shouldnt be a contest and isnât.
FWIW I feel Roon users tend to put too much faith in the Ethernet cable to the endpoint solving noise. It reduces it but some still gets through and weâre only just starting to understand this stuff.
I didnât know about the feature request section so thanks for that. No need to move it though as not my thread and Iâve made my case to the point of probably overstaying my welcome.
No Squeezebox hardware. Just a software implementation on the Zenith which then plays via USB direct to my DAC.
