James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
51
I don’t disagree. I had my own dot-com startup that was 2 guys just as you described and we had to say “no” to many tangential opportunities that “would be nice” but we didn’t have the bandwidth or the resources unless we abandoned our core mission. So yeah, I totally get that no software can be all things to all people and that can include items we might take for granted like folder browsing.
And nor was I specifically saying that I believe folder browsing should be implemented (I do actually, albeit I don’t think I would use it often, it is more about the fact that I would like Roon to be able to play a file that isn’t in the library without adding it, and I think that could be possible if you could just browse to the folder, select a file, and play, but still the function is really minor and not important to me. I just think it is a dumb product decision.).
What I was saying was that the statement that they can afford to chase away customers bothers me at a kind of deeper level. I don’t know why - there is plenty of software that I use that doesn’t form a piece of my identity. Like, I don’t consider myself part of the Microsoft Excel club or something. But with Roon, it’s different. I am uncomfortable feeling to be a member of a community that chases away well meaning people. It was bad enough with other forum users doing it. I don’t like to see that institutionalized by the Roon team itself chasing away folks I.just.don’t.like.it.
Plus, Roon has already said that implementing folder browsing would be a trivial undertaking. They just don’t want it. OK. But I don’t like the chase away aspect. Just keep saying “but you don’t need it – look at all our shiny other ways to navigate!” not “stop asking for it and go away.”
James your not getting any more hearts off me today so just stop!
I deleted a couple of paragraphs in my response to Danny saying a lot of this. While I don’t want to use file browsing (ok maybe once for the throwback memories).
As you grow the audience size, you have to leave some of your strongly held beliefs go because it doesn’t fit with that bigger audience.
I think it’s different with Roon because it’s a piece of software that allows us to indulge a core passion, and it does so in a way that’s elegant, thoughtful, and aesthetically pleasing (for the most part at least). It’s also clear that the Roon team are as passionate as us, and that’s a powerful combination.
As for folder browsing, and I can only talk from my own experience, it’s not something I would use much either, but it would be nice to do so, not because I need it, but because that’s the way my files are organised. Part of my passion is to be meticulous in how I file my music. I have a large library, and it’s organised as I want it, but there’s no way to marry that organisation with Roon - Roon just doesn’t care. All of which is a round about way of saying that maybe part of the reason some people are disappointed about the lack of folder browsing is simply because they have spent a lot of time, energy and passion in organising their music, but none of that effort can be utilised or drawn upon while listening with Roon.
In short, I think this is maybe as much an emotional issue as it is a practical one.
I just Chuck all my files in together except for Audiobooks, which I keep in a separate folder. Roon sorts it so I don’t have to. That’s what I paid for.
I can use the tools to find anything I want very quickly, a lot faster than trawling through folders that’s for sure.
It may start as uncomfortable, change always is but, the more you use the tools the more you appreciate things. It is a new paradigm for a new age in music consumption.
Nobody gives a s… about your passion anymore! (I’M NOT TRYING TO OFFEND YOU JUST TO MAKE A POINT). The only thing that drives things these days are the money. When Tidal or Qobuz or Amazon for example will give the smallest frozen s… available on our passion, then you’ll start to see some nice, correct and good metadata at least in their backyard (just an example). When the artists will give the smallest frozen s… available on our passion then we’ll start seeing some decent artist pictures in whatever application we are using (another example, ROON wise the artist screen is an abomination). But they don’t. And the list goes on and on (including almost all software companies these days).
Yeah, I take your point, and maybe I’m a bit of a control freak when it comes to my music, but I can’t bear the thought of it not being organised. Besides, if Roon does ever fold, then I’ll be in a better position than if I’d just chucked everything in the same folder
Here’s the thing. For the most part, I think you may be right, but I’ve always been a glass half full sort of person so I choose to believe that Roon do care. Sure, companies like Amazon don’t give any sort of s***, frozen or otherwise, but I choose to believe that Roon haven’t sold out … at least not yet.
The real paradigm here is that these days everybody knows how to write code, but there are fewer and fewer those who know how to write an application… (full disclosure I don’t care about the folder view, but I found myself in very few situations when I needed quick access to the folder view, to verify something or whatever. Others may need that more). Giving or not the option is a matter of vision. But then again, put “horizontal scrolling” and “vision” in the same phrase and see how it sounds…
David I think most of us here are control freaks (or just freaks).
But the community is growing and there may be less freaks here as time goes on.
Hence so many people coming in and barging into the forums not having read any documents or learning any of the etiquette on the forum’s.
The thing is, you can perfectly organise your folders if that’s important to you and Roon works just the same, so it’s win win should you decide to leave Roon for something more traditional.
I understand that folder organization doesn’t matter so much anymore with keeping track of files and content… metadata, keywords, tags, blah blah. That said, I’d still like a folder view as a choice… even if it was only a list of the folders in the storage data path. It would help me find music I want to hear when I can’t think of the name of an Artist or Album. It gets very frustrating and I could scroll so quickly through my Foobar2000 views years ago. Pictures of a dozen or so artists or albums at a time is great but sometimes I need a fast look at the names and titles.
James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
63
One thing I will say (OK there’s many things I will say, we all know this) is those who feel they heavily rely on folder navigation would benefit from exploring Roon’s tags, playlists, focus, and filter to improve shortcutting to content they are looking for.
For me, every artist is tagged into at least one mood. It works like a genre but is more personal - many are the titles of series of comp cassette tapes I made back in the day - i.e. music for the morning, music for driving, whatever. That helps me find something I can’t name or search for since at least I should know the mood it’s in.
I have read others who track albums they’d want to group together by having at least one track from each in a playlist. That probably would have a similar benefit and you can navigate to the album as you scroll through the playlist.
I use bookmarks and the funnel filter to quickly display organized hierarchies of tags to easily drill into them.
All of this requires work. But it’s a way of meeting Roon in the middle…
So I guess you only have a collection of meta data on your desktop and everything on your computer happens based on that? You’re already in 4034!
The data lake concept is neat, nice and sound, still we are not yet there and whatever music you are listening at (personal collection, streaming, internet radio, whatever) still comes from a file/folder like structure somewhere…
Agreed. I don’t know which side of the line Roon Labs lives on though. They have been around for “a while” but we have no financial data to understand how healthy they are or where the cash is coming from to pay for continued innovation. Nice advantage of not having to share such details from a small, privately held, company.
Indeed. I wonder how the iPod might have fared if the only thing to use as index was a bunch of album pictures on its screen. Being “hard-assed” about feature requests doesn’t help at all; people are paying for something, and are completely entitled to request improvements as they deem fit.
As someone who is often responsible for finding constructive solutions in my field of work, the least I could expect was that Roon could come back with a “compromise” solution that is in keeping with whatever UI principles they may have, while at the same time showing goodwill towards the needs of its customers. And let us not forget: without customers there is no Roon.
