Getting back to Roon's core purpose

I read reviews and follow blogs, etc.

When I listen to music, I want to listen to something I know I will like, not something an algorithm thinks I might like. It’s almost always wrong :frowning:

I very much agree with the comments from Evan and others who feel that it would be nice to see further developments regarding the interface and our interation with Roon itself.

Having said that, I think the real problem is to do with this forum and the way it is run and the feeling of lack of connection we have with Roon themselves when posting requests.

If the forum did not exist and Roon continued to develop behind closed doors adding whatever functionality, and features they wished as and when they saw fit (as they appear to be doing now), then we would think nothing of it and applaud whatever updates came along without question. Indeed we would view Roon as a constantly improving entity and look at Roon the company with adoring eyes for working tirelessly to improve and already excellent products.

However, Roon has seen fit to provide this forum as a means to garner feedback from users as to what they might like to see in future as features within the Roon framework.

Now this is all well and good but it seems Roon themselves have a pretty strict agenda of what they want to develop further, and that is not something we are privvy to.

What this results in it a feeling of detachment and disillusionment when we post, what we feel are, excellent ideas which often seem relatively simple to implement. Often we are left to bicker amongst our selves, thus increasing the feeling of chagrin.

It just feels like we’re shouting into a black hole sometimes rather than having a dialogue with the team as to what could be developed next and how it could be implemented in the next build or beyond; ie how it could fit into the development timetable, or if it should be shelved for now, etc.

Please note this is not to detract from Roon or the work that goes on, i think it’s bloody fantastic :slight_smile:

I just feel that there is a lack of pro-active interaction and discussion with Roon themselves within the framework they themselves have set up for just that purpose.

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And on the contrary, I observe much pro-active interaction and discussion with members of the Roon team here. And that is one of the things that distinguishes this forum from other support forums in my experience.

It just feels like we’re shouting into a black hole sometimes rather than having a dialogue with the team as to what could be developed next and how it could be implemented in the next build or beyond; ie how it could fit into the development timetable, or if it should be shelved for now, etc.

That seems to me to go beyond what we should expect. Roon is not open source software. Roon labs is a business.

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Sure Geoff, there is interaction and discussion but there is never any indication of when good ideas may be implemented or even if they will be implemented at all. That is my feeling and observation, and indeed, it has led me away recently from interaction with the forum to post suggestions and to a more passive acceptance of what Roon is doing and just getting on with using the software. Just saying… :slight_smile:

And ref this:

I’m not sure how this relates to working on ideas with customers and indicating when and whether said ideas could be implemented?

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Recommendations in the way Deezer does helps a lot in filtering out a choice of more then 3 million albums. It helps discovering new music and it’s a very nice background radio with new music. Sometimes I just know what to listen to but we play music up to 16 hours a day in my houshold. I’m not an audiophile who listen to music one or two hours ever so now and then. Personalized radio is great then.

It totally depends on how the algorithm works. Tidal is always way of in recommendations. Deezer does quite a good job. Totally different algorithms.

Sure, we’re all different.

I never listen to music “in the background”, only when I choose, and it’s always a specific album (never just one song).

So the “radio” model does not work for me at all.

If an idea is implemented in some form and shows up in a new build, that’s always a good indication. I think it’s unrealistic to expect that a member of the Roon team will respond to every suggestion or give it a thumbs-up or thumbs-down. If you have a good idea, by all means put it out there and see what the reaction is. My sense is that the Roon folks are extremely attentive to user input, more so than most other developers, regardless of size.

Also, if we were to give it a thumbs up, that doesn’t mean it’ll get done. Long ago, we used to give feedback like this, but the community didn’t react very well. It’s best we give no future scheduling of features and/or timelines.

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Evan, thanks for this.
I agree with the importance of keeping a focus on core values.
We can easily get distracted by technical tweaks and edge cases.

That said, there is one technical area that is of top importance to me, and I believe to the Roon business: away-from-home play, with all that this entails (mobile devices, cloud sync…). This is how the world moves, it would be a mistake to focus on affluent, middle-aged white men sitting in front of an altar to high fidelity – even though I am one, that’s not the only way I listen.

So that’s a technical thing (a big one). I would rank that highest. It would change my life. What you suggest would too, but perhaps less.

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Whilst I understand why you have this policy and not saying I disagree with it, it seems that maybe the “silent majority” are paying the price for a “vocal minority”… Just like in real life :slight_smile:

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I suppose I was simply trying to point out that there is a feeling of disappointment in the current development route (as per Evan’s OP) possibly because there is no indication of what is being developed.

i am suggesting that there’s a miss-step between how your “Feature Requests” feature comes across to customers who participate in the process and how you are processing the information your side.

I know you’ve said before that to publish the “road-map” for development is a recipe for argument down the line if things are modified, shelved, etc, but there could be some middle ground to work towards?

I don’t even mind at all if you keep your current system and ethos in place, lol. I love what you’re doing and Roon, happy to back off, my words are just intended to help improve further: if you can improve the feedback and ideas coming in, then Roon itself can only improve in the long term :slight_smile:

Just to clarify, I hadn’t intended to convey disappointment (I’m not disappointed), rather to remind us what was at the core of Roon’s proposition.

This has been discussed many times already. See this for example.

Unfortunately if Roon says anything about what us coming they get bugged fir it like mad. See this as just one example around the release of 1.3.

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Ok, so maybe disappointment was a bit strong :slight_smile:

I do agree with your OP, in any case, there are so many ways in which data can be used to enhance the listening experience. Very exciting possibilities.

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How about something like this?

The key part is the list of ideas that has links to the original idea, has a voting button, and shows the Status (Not Right Now, Under Consideration, etc.) It does not tell users which version a new feature will be in, which is something the Roon folks want to stay away from too.

I have also mostly given up posting feature requests because it feels like I’m dropping them in a black hole. At a minimum, I’d like to know that someone on the Roon team had read the request and considered it.

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Interesting thread.

I would certainly welcome more metadata as I find it fascinating, enriching and helps to guide my future listening.

I would also appreciate Alexa integration.

I would also appreciate improved Radio functionality.

I would basically like all of the additional/improved functionality discussed within this thread and I am confident that over time it will arrive.

P.S Thanks for the Little Wing info in the OP - that is my favourite track on Layla and was an interesting read. What an album.

I so totally agree on this one. Roon should address this one in the next update. A ‘focus on similar’ button should give you 5 or max 10 results that really are similar, not 342 that are hit or miss.

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I’ve never seen anyone be upset over new features before…

You’re getting more for the same amount of money, what’s to be upset about? Everything can always be improved, this will always be true. Your complaints are evidence that all software should be open source so that you can contribute the improvements that you would like to see.