It’s not always that simple, and if it causes extended downtime, you’ll put some thought in it.
Not sure I understand this. Roon is a supported app, so if it breaks, you still get support. That’s how software support works. Would you argue that you don’t want to pay for Office because Microsoft doesn’t offer a dedicated machine for it?
It’s not the nuc or the nucleus that makes Roon more stable, it’s Linux.
It’s also that Roon OS is an absolutely minimal Linux-based system that does nothing but running Roon and updates atomically, so you don’t have to deal with the package management system of a general-purpose Linux distribution either (and the system upgrades, possible package dependency issues, etc., that come with any complex general-purpose OS)
The nucleus isn’t necessarily better than any other computer it’s just a nuc in a fancy coat and using a bespoke OS that’s dedicated to one thing, run Roon. Personally you’re better off using a nuc and rock and spend the saved money on music.
When I started using Roon, I saved money a different way: I used one machine as both a general-purpose storage server (basically a NAS on steroids) and a Roon server. Had I used a NUC, I would have had to use two machines. Later on, I used that machine to run both Roon Core and LMS, something I wouldn’t have been able to do with a NUC. Locked-down systems are just not for me.
What about Small Green Computer?
I run Nucleus+ at one location, and an M1 Mac Mini in another. Both perform incredibly well. My view is similar to others here that you pay for additional convenience (set it and forget it) with Nucleus. The Mac, or other computer, requires occasional (or even frequent) tinkering. Personally, I love the tinkering. I frequently try out different things on the Mac Mini that are impossible on the Nucleus+, and I occasionally get frustrated when the Mac needs to be tended instead of just playing music for me. Both are great, and I think it’s really just a question of whether you want to pay up in order to reduce the time you spend dealing with the device.
I have arguably overpaid for both devices, as it would have cost less to use a NUC. But that would have required finding and configuring the software and hardware. I’d end up ordering stuff from multiple vendors, re-ordering stuff when I got the wrong stuff, then optimizing incessantly to make sure everything is configured right. I’ve built far too many servers in my day to want to do any more of that.
It’s really down to whether you’d rather save money (build-your-own/NUC) or save time (Nucleus).
I can’t disagree. My only point is that the vast majority of stability improvements comes from a move to Linux and that the nucleus with the dedicated Roon package is mostly about convenience in admin.
I upgraded my computer and have my ‘old’ (year and a half) motherboard, a gigabyte x570s ud, 5800x ryzen and 32 gb for sale on marktplaats.nl (marketplace).
Though I know Roon Rock can only be installed on selected hardware, I tried to install on this gigabyte motherboard anyway, just for fun.
And … it installed perfectly and I am playing music from this Roon Rock server as I type.
Am I just lucky or is Roon Rock compatible with more hardware today? Aside from the more power consumption, the more power compared to my Nuc8I5 is very noticeable. It seems to work like a charm.
Does anyone think using a gigabyte motherboard is a bad idea anyway and I should stick to my Nuc?
If it works it works. Linux kernels support a lot of hardware nowadays. It’s just that Roon doesn’t guarantee anything except on NUCs
Clear, thank you.
I think everyone’s experience is different, however for me and I believe most people, using your own computer is less expensive then buying a new dedicated device. I may be in the minority being very tech savvy, built my own desktop PC, know how to program, reapplying thermal paste and such. I also have old laptops gathering dust. Roon’s system requirements are in my opinion very low.
Roon has been rock solid on my Windows 11 desktop PC, which I need to update for work any how. For my situation there is absolutely no reason for me to buy a new device just for Roon until a problem arises and gets me off my as* to install Linux on one of my older laptops if I find Roon is unstable on my windows pc. Roon’s team also supports windows PC.
I honestly think it’s a disservice and makes people move away from subscribing to Roon when someone says you need to buy another device for optimal performance of Roon when it’s simply not the case. Roon is already expensive for many people, adding an additional cost is not really helping people sign up for Roon.
When someone first told me about Roon, he told me that I would need to buy a Roon Nucleus to really enjoy the benefits which made me not even look at Roon for over a year till I did my own research and found out that I don’t need a Nucleus and had ALL of the function of Roon and more on my much more powerful desktop PC.
My PC gives me Roon DSP, faster and easier file transfers, less expensive hard drive storage and backup options, integration with my three audio interfaces which has hardware DSP, CD ripping software, software audio DSP, much easier integration of my outboard audio equipment, DAW and vinyl ripping software etc. The pros on using a desktop for me, and I emphasize for me being a very proficient PC user and “wanna be” amateur music producer, substantially outweighs ever buying a dedicated Roon Core device. I would see it as a downgrade in my situation.
We’ve had a string of posts flagged as offtopic, can you all please stay within the bounds / spirit of the OP’s original question … cost is absolute but value is very subjective and down to the individual to determine … let’s leave it at that.
There’s absolutely no point in banging the drum over and over again so let that one lie.
It depends on the user. If you are a power user that likes to be able to mod and configure your own system, the Nucleus is not better, might even be a bit frustrating. On the other hand, if you are a typical user with a very limited ability to set up and troubleshoot systems, the Nucleus is a reasonably priced plug and play solution. I say reasonably priced because I built my own fanless PC and it was not cheap.
Let’s not forget that at the end of the day, Roon is just a piece of software. Granted, a fairly complex piece of software, but nobody has to “mod and configure” their system to run Roon any more than to run say Office or Photoshop. If you are an accountant and need to use Excel, or a photographer and need to use Photoshop, you don’t need a computer science degree to do so, do you?
I agree with this if you have a simple PC Window’s system and using it just for streaming. If you’re using the computer to play audio through it’s speaker system or an external DAC/Audio Interface it gets a bit complicated if you want the best audio quality. I would say it’s similar to installing and using a software DAW.
If using your PC’s speakers I believe Windows has an internal mixer which resamples the music from Roon and depending on your audio card (I’ve heard issues with some Real Audio drivers) then it can be a bit daunting because you would need to understand about different codex (ASIO), exclusive mode, bit rate and sample rates, disabling effects, master clock and jitter. Most people shouldn’t run into this problem and Windows resampling in most situations was found to be transparent. Additionally if you’re streaming from Roon you won’t run into these issues. I read a pretty detailed forum post with measurements regarding Windows resampling from an audio engineer. If I find the post I’ll come back here and link it.
Whether any solution is optimum depends entirely on your requirements for the system in question. There is an entire field of engineering (Systems Engineering) devoted to establishing a hierarchical set of requirements that define the solution prior to the start of preliminary design. As an engineer, I would never purchase any hardware component without first considering my key requirements for that component.
In the case of my Roon core hardware, I had a key requirement for use in a small space with somewhat limited ventilation. The methods used for power and cooling are a good fit for the Nucleus. Cost was not an especially important requirement for me. I have been using the Nucleus for over a year and it has been problem free, never more than slightly warm to the touch, and simple to use.
Sure, there is some one-time audio configuration you need to do, but that’s also the case with NUC and Nucleus. There are articles on ASIO and WASAPI in Roon’s help center and there’s also this forum. I’ve said it before in other discussions on this topic: once you install Roon and run it for the first time, you’re basically in the same situation as when you turn on your Nucleus for the first time.
I agree. In terms of Windows resampling here’s the post. If you’re into super geeky audio, filters and resampling in Windows stuff. Link
Thanks for the link. Super interesting! I’ll do my own measurements soon on Win11 and report back.
(I’m not sure why the author doesn’t find WASAPI exclusive or ASIO as acceptable solutions though. If you need DSP, the solution would most likely be before the Windows audio stack, i.e. implemented in the player.)