Is there a simple way to make HAF Room Shaper work with HQP desktop?
You can ask the filters to be created HQPlayer convolution engine compliant.
Room Shaper is another product by HAF which it not based on a LTI convolution filter like their Room Correction service (which is already working well with HQPlayer Pipeline Matrix).
Room Shaper is today either a VST plugin or standalone application requiring some “software wires” . It works in the time domain and cannot be implemented via convolution.
And it works very very well, virtual bass trap of some sort, especially for highly resonant rooms.
Such won’t work with HQPlayer…
No, not for the time being . But do you think this can be added to HQPlayer embedded within next 2 or 3 years ?
It’s my understanding that the SW first need to be converted into Linux, and that’s the first challenge as I understand Thierry isn’t a Linux guy.
Second challenge is processing power, and maybe that’s why Roon won’t support this for the time being. I don’t know.
That’s why I hope for SonicTransporter with Roon and HQPlayer embedded somehow find a way.
Funny, I just purchased a desktop license from @jussi_laako this afternoon and was looking online to see if Thierry’s Room Shaper would work with HQP. Thierry and I tried many iterations to try and get it to work with Roon, including an attempt to loop through FooBar1000, which has a virtual sound input. No luck.
I have plenty to experiment with for the moment, but it is too bad that resolution of this incompatibilty still eludes the convolution crowd. JCR
First thing would be to figure out if it can be implemented as a plugin into HQPlayer’s pipeline matrix. And then whether the needed algorithm would be available.
HQPlayer requirement for things is that the code is OS agnostic (practically runs on Windows, macOS and Linux) and works for both PCM and DSD.
The question is if Thierry (or someone else) can write Room Shaper in a language that Roon understand. I guess there is a challenge how to interact with that SW as it requires some GUI. Maybe it can be done by api and extensions. Maybe Roon can do something so GUI can be displayed. Still reprogramming is needed as VST won’t work.
You’re saying that Room Shaper is working in the time domain. My understanding is so do HAF or Audiolence when applied into convoluting.
Is really VST or similar plugins the only way to create the functionality of what the Room Shaper does.
I would very much like someone to give a technical explanation. As I think most things is possible in SW.
I’ve got some answer in link below, but I still don’t understand the requirement of VST. There must be other ways. Can anyone enlighten me, or discuss with Thierry ?
“ Room Shaper is not a static filter and processes the incoming signal based on a threshold level and strength that the user sets”
Maybe your discussion with Thierry can give some answers. Do we really need a GUI. Won’t a simple setting of input by numbers by 1 to 100 be sufficient as an example.
Or even an external app sending necessary settings to Room Shaper. (Or Roon extentions)
Do you know what is possible with API and VST plugins ?
Can Roon extension be part of DSP ? (I don’t think so).
The best we may hope for I guess is a controlling interface of some sort, and that would still need changes in the Room Shaper. Which may is impossible in rules of a VST.
VST plugin for Roon seems like an impossible solution:
Sorry I was unclear so let me rephrase it : Room Shaper is not a Linear Time Invariant (LTI) process that can be characterized by its impulse response and therefore implemented by the mean of convolution (which is what standard HAF filter and Audiolense do).
There is some sort of “pre-processing” of the input signal that is looking for the problematic/resonant frequencies of the room (as measured by the user and uploaded in the interface). When the input signal contains a “note” at a problematic frequency, Room Shaper is sort of “shortening” that note with a form of wavelet transform. The Room Shaper shortened note is then played by the audio system in the room, and the room “expands” the short note because of the resonance, which therefore sounds closer to the “original”, thanks to the resonance. This precompensation is tricky to achieve in order to sound as natural as possible, while keeping computing ressources reasonable. From what I’ve heard, Thierry did a good job (I am a customer and user of Room Shaper).
A proper implementation in Roon would require to integrate fully with Roon DSP, for example through APIs. This is not possible today, but I agree it would be extremely beneficial so that third parties like HAF or hobbyists can provide more DSP options, for example:
- headphone correction for all models (there are huge databases out there of headphone measurements on GitHub)
- alternative and better upsampling algorithms à la HQPlayer. HQPlayer is definitely outperforming Roon’s standard upsampling algorithms
- automated room correction modules, based on system measturement à la Dirac
- cross talk reduction filters
- non linear room mode correction like Room Shaper etc…
A full VST integration seems unlikely as it raises GUI challenges, but an opening of Roon’s DSP pipeline would bring many benefits.
There’s been no real improvement to Roon DSP since Roon 1.3 three years ago except UI refresh and bug corrections, I hope we’ll see a new step soon!
This desire to evolve is still valid today!