HQPlayer: Beware if you are considering buying

Fair enough. Your advice about keeping installers is practical - it’s good guidance for protecting yourself when dealing with dodgy businesses that might behave this way.

Though I’d note that needing to keep local backups because a company might lock you out of what you paid for is itself an acknowledgment that the practice is problematic. We shouldn’t have to treat legitimate software vendors like they might disappear or turn predatory.

But I take your point that you were offering pragmatic solutions. Sorry for the hostility.

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So you are asking Signalyst to keep supplying installers for new OS versions in perpetuity? That’s actual development and support work, with a cost you are ignoring. You had a functioning version of HQPlayer on Windows 10. That’s what you paid for. It’s not Signalyst’s responsibility that you decided to switch to Windows 11.

This is a complete strawman argument.

I’m not asking for:

  • New OS compatibility updates
  • Ongoing development work
  • Free support for Windows 11

I’m asking for access to the v4 installer that already existed - the exact same version I paid for in 2021. Zero new development required. It’s a file that already exists (or existed) that they’re refusing to provide to paying customers.

“You had a functioning version on Windows 10. That’s what you paid for.”

And if my hard drive fails? If I need to reinstall? If I upgrade my hardware? Your argument is that a £300 software purchase should become worthless the moment I can’t access the original installation.

That’s not how software licenses work - or at least, it’s not how they should work. When you buy a perpetual license, you’re buying the right to use that software, which includes being able to reinstall it.

“It’s not Signalyst’s responsibility that you decided to switch to Windows 11”

It’s absolutely their responsibility to provide access to the software version I purchased. Whether it runs on Windows 11 is a separate question - but I should at least be able to try to run it, or choose to dual-boot, or use a VM.

This is exactly the kind of gaslighting that normalises anti-consumer practices. You’re defending a company’s choice to withhold access to software customers paid for by inventing obligations nobody asked for.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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Quick follow-up on the “cost” argument:

Let’s be crystal clear about what’s actually being asked here: hosting static installer files. Not development, not support, not updates - just keeping old installers available for download.

The actual cost of this in 2025? Essentially nothing:

  • GitHub releases: Free for public repos, unlimited bandwidth
  • Archive.org: Free hosting, permanent storage
  • AWS S3: A few gigabytes of installers would cost literally pennies per month
  • Backblaze B2: Even cheaper - first 10GB free, then $0.005/GB/month
  • Cloudflare R2: Free egress bandwidth

An HQPlayer installer is what, maybe 100-200MB? You could host every version ever released for less than the cost of a coffee per month.

Major software companies manage to keep decade-old installers available. Microsoft still lets you download Windows 7 ISOs. Adobe keeps old Creative Suite versions accessible. Oracle maintains ancient Java versions.

The file literally already existed. They didn’t need to create anything new - just not delete it. Or if they did delete it, put it on any of the dozen free/cheap hosting solutions that exist.

So no, “cost” is not a valid excuse here. This is a choice, not a necessity. Signalyst are defending practices that harm customers by pretending there are technical or financial barriers that don’t exist.

This is a clear cynical move by them to force people to buy the software again.

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You are assuming the installer would work on Windows 11. If it did not, you’d be complaining about that and demanding that it be made to work.

Do the Signalyst terms and conditions say anything about how long they guarantee to make downloads of previous versions of HQPlayer available? This situation reminds me of people complaining because they purchased music files from Qobuz but didn’t download them immediately. Later, when they finally decided to download them instead of streaming them, they were no longer available.

I don’t know what the Signalyst policy is, but when you buy something that is downloaded from the internet, I guess it’s always a good policy to immediately download and store a backup in a safe place to guard against such as this.

EDIT: I’m not saying their policy is right or fair, but I don’t know their side of the question to make a judgement. But, life is not fair, so do the best you can to protect yourself. Maybe 4 1/2 years of use for $300 is reasonable, IDK.

Just to clarify - v4 was working on Windows 11 before support ended. I know this because I eventually got it running (though I had to source the installer through other means after being refused the official one).

But honestly, whether it works perfectly on Windows 11 or not isn’t really the point. If I’d downloaded it and encountered compatibility issues, that would be my problem to troubleshoot - maybe run it in a VM, dual-boot Windows 10, or accept the incompatibility.

The fundamental issue is that I should have access to try. I paid £300 for a license that’s still valid. I should be able to download the installer whether it works perfectly on every system or not.

You’re essentially arguing that the company should withhold access because I might complain if it doesn’t work perfectly. That doesn’t make sense. By that logic, no company should provide anything because customers might complain about compatibility.

The question is straightforward: Should paying customers have access to installers for software they hold valid licenses for?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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Fair questions, and I appreciate you engaging thoughtfully with this.

On the T&Cs: I don’t recall seeing anything specific about download availability timeframes when I purchased in 2021, but you’re right that I should check. However, even if it’s buried in the T&Cs, that doesn’t necessarily make it legal or enforceable - consumer protection law in the UK can override unfair contract terms.

On the Qobuz comparison: That’s a fair point about their download store, but there’s a key difference - when Qobuz removes music downloads, it’s typically because they’ve lost licensing rights from record labels. They literally no longer have the legal right to distribute that content.

Signalyst owns HQPlayer outright. There’s no third-party licensing issue preventing them from providing v4 installers to paying customers. This is first-party software they created and control completely.

On keeping backups: You’re absolutely right that it’s good practice to keep installers. I learned that lesson here. But “users should protect themselves” doesn’t make anti-consumer practices okay. The fact that we need to keep local backups because companies might lock us out of what we paid for is itself the problem.

To put this in perspective: I’ve been a software engineer for 25 years and I’ve never seen this type of practice before. Look at Steam - they maintain access to game installers from a decade ago for paying customers. GOG provides DRM-free installers you can download anytime. Even Microsoft keeps old Windows ISOs available. The industry standard is to provide continued access to what customers have purchased.

The core question remains: Should legitimate software vendors be able to refuse customers access to installers they’ve paid for? Even if it’s technically legal via T&Cs, is it right?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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And honestly? I suspect v5 wasn’t a compelling enough upgrade to justify another £300, so they had to force the issue by removing access to v4 installers.

It’s already been noted that v5 is essentially a recompilation of v4 with some additional filters - hardly worth a full-price repurchase. When your “new version” is just incremental improvements, and customers aren’t voluntarily upgrading, what do you do?

Apparently the answer is: make it impossible for them to keep using what they already paid for.

It’s a business model built on manufactured obsolescence and holding customers’ purchases hostage.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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A cautionary tale for anyone considering Signalyst software:

This experience should serve as a warning about the risks of investing in HQPlayer. If they’re willing to lock paying customers out of software they purchased just four years ago - forcing a full-price repurchase for what amounts to minor updates - what else might they do in the future?

This behaviour is indicative of poor customer service and predatory business tactics. Today it’s refusing installer access. Tomorrow it could be:

  • Shorter support cycles (v6 support ending after 2 years?)
  • License keys being deactivated
  • Required “maintenance fees” to keep using what you already paid for
  • Even higher upgrade prices

When a company shows you who they are through their practices, believe them. £300+ is a significant investment for software, and you deserve better than being treated as a captive revenue source rather than a valued customer.

Proceed with caution, keep your installers backed up, and seriously consider whether you want to support a business model built on locking customers out of what they’ve legitimately purchased.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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Signalyst’s Website: What They Don’t Tell You

For anyone considering HQPlayer, here’s what Signalyst’s website doesn’t disclose - issues that matter for UK/EU consumer rights:


1. ILLEGAL “NO REFUNDS” STATEMENT

Website claim:

“All sales are final and non-refundable!”

The problem:
Under UK Consumer Rights Act 2015, this blanket statement is unenforceable. You have legal rights if the product is faulty, doesn’t match description, or if the seller breached contract. They’re misleading you into thinking you have no rights.


2. “PERPETUAL LICENSE” THAT ISN’T

Website claim:

“Purchased license covers same major version (5.x)”

What they don’t tell you:

  • When v5 launches, they stop providing v4 installers
  • Your “perpetual” license becomes worthless if you need to reinstall
  • You must repurchase at full price to regain access

You’re buying a license with an undisclosed expiry date.


3. THE 30-MINUTE TRIAL EXCUSE

Website claim:

“Try the software before buying”

Why this is inadequate:
30 minutes cannot reveal:

  • Long-term stability issues
  • That customer service doesn’t exist
  • That you’ll be locked out of installers
  • Undisclosed policies about license access

This doesn’t justify refusing a £300 customer basic support.


4. “CONTACT” PAGE WITH NO ACTUAL SUPPORT

What the website shows:

  • Email address for “technical contact”

What it doesn’t show:

  • Email support is non-existent
  • You’ll be told to “search forums”
  • Support requests are routinely ignored
  • No service level expectations

Providing contact info without providing support is misleading.


WHY THIS MATTERS:

When you buy HQPlayer, the website never tells you:

  • :cross_mark: Your installer access expires
  • :cross_mark: Email support doesn’t exist
  • :cross_mark: Your “perpetual” license has a hidden expiry
  • :cross_mark: You’ll need to repurchase for continued access

This is textbook misleading business practice under UK/EU consumer law.


Bottom line: The “no refunds” statement is likely illegal, and the failure to disclose that “perpetual licenses” lose installer access is a material misrepresentation of what you’re buying.

If you’re in the UK/EU and have been affected by these practices, you have legal rights regardless of what their website claims.

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Can you still download windows vista?

If You’re Reading This, Jussi: Points to Consider

You probably know about this thread. You may even be reading this post. If so, here are some things worth considering - not as an attack, but as someone who genuinely respects the technical work you’ve done while disagreeing strongly with your business practices.


1. The Legal Risk is Real

UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 is not optional:

  • Your “all sales final” statement is legally unenforceable for faulty products
  • Refusing to provide an installer for a £300 “perpetual license” is a material breach of contract
  • Trading Standards takes these complaints seriously
  • One successful complaint can trigger broader investigations
  • Legal fees for defending consumer rights cases can be vastly more expensive than just providing good service

You’re creating legal liability to avoid doing something that costs you nothing.


2. The Reputational Damage is Compounding

Every forum discussion like this:

  • Reaches thousands of potential customers
  • Gets indexed by Google forever
  • Influences purchase decisions for years
  • Creates a permanent record of business practices

Right now, searches for “HQPlayer” increasingly return:

  • Complaints about customer service
  • Warnings to backup installers
  • Stories about being locked out
  • Advice to “avoid” or “be careful”

One customer made unhappy costs you nothing. One customer made happy costs you nothing.
But one customer treated badly creates dozens of forum posts warning others.


3. The Financial Math Doesn’t Add Up

What removing installers gains you:

  • Some unknown percentage of forced upgrades
  • Maybe a few thousand euros per year?

What it costs you:

  • Lost sales from negative reputation
  • Time spent dealing with complaints (more than hosting costs)
  • Time spent defending policies on forums
  • Goodwill that could lead to recommendations

Consider: The person you refused a £300 installer to might have:

  • Recommended HQPlayer to their audiophile club (10-20 people)
  • Written positive reviews
  • Become a forum advocate
  • Upgraded willingly when v5 had compelling features

You traded long-term evangelism for short-term forced revenue.


4. The “Small Operation” Excuse is Backfiring

Being a one-person shop should make you MORE flexible, not less:

  • You don’t answer to shareholders
  • You can make customer-friendly decisions instantly
  • You can adapt policies without corporate bureaucracy
  • You can build genuine relationships with users

Instead, you’re using “small operation” as justification for:

  • Worse service than large corporations
  • Less transparency than big companies
  • More rigid policies than enterprise software

People root for small developers - until they realize the small developer is using their size as an excuse for poor practices.


5. The Technical Respect vs. Business Contempt Problem

People genuinely admire your technical work:

  • The algorithms are impressive
  • The performance optimization is remarkable
  • The filter options are unmatched
  • The audio quality is demonstrably excellent

But technical excellence doesn’t excuse business contempt:

  • “You should have backed up your installer” = You should have anticipated I’d lock you out
  • “Oh well” = I don’t care about your problem
  • “Support has ended” = You’re on your own even though you paid £300
  • Silence on complaints = Your concerns don’t merit a response

You’re spending the goodwill your technical work creates faster than you’re earning it.


6. The Comparison That Should Concern You

Adobe (a corporation people love to hate):

  • :white_check_mark: Provides downloads of old Creative Suite versions
  • :white_check_mark: Maintains clear policies on legacy software
  • :white_check_mark: Explains why they moved to subscription
  • :white_check_mark: Offers volume discounts and education pricing

You (a one-person indie operation):

  • :cross_mark: Removes installer access
  • :cross_mark: No clear policy disclosure
  • :cross_mark: No explanation for decisions
  • :cross_mark: Take it or leave it pricing

When Adobe has better customer service practices than you do, that should be a wake-up call.


7. The Simple Fix You’re Refusing

All of this goes away if you simply:

  1. Restore v4 installers with a clear warning:

    WARNING: Version 4 is NO LONGER SUPPORTED
    - No bug fixes will be provided
    - No compatibility updates for new operating systems
    - Use at your own risk
    - We recommend upgrading to version 5
    
  2. Update your website to clearly state:

    License Policy:
    - Perpetual licenses cover the major version purchased
    - Support lasts 2 years after version release
    - Installers remain available for existing license holders
    - Upgrades to new major versions available at [price]
    
  3. Send a brief email to affected customers:

    After feedback, we've restored access to v4 installers.
    While support has ended, you can now reinstall your software.
    We appreciate your patience.
    

Total time investment: Maybe 2-3 hours.
Total cost: Effectively zero.
Benefit: Ends all these complaints permanently.


8. The Path Forward

You have three realistic options:

Option A: Continue as you are

  • More complaints accumulate
  • Reputation continues to degrade
  • Eventually face legal challenges
  • Spend time defending instead of developing
  • Slowly lose market position to alternatives

Option B: Double down

  • Make policies even more explicit (but still face legal issues)
  • Accept the reputation damage
  • Focus on customers who don’t care about service
  • Accept you’re building a niche product for a shrinking base

Option C: Fix it

  • Restore installer access
  • Update policies to be transparent
  • Brief acknowledgment that you’ve reconsidered
  • Move forward with better practices
  • Let the technical quality speak for itself again

Option C is the only one that doesn’t end badly.


9. What You’re Really Protecting

Be honest with yourself about what you’re defending:

:cross_mark: Not server costs (pennies)
:cross_mark: Not support burden (you provide none anyway)
:cross_mark: Not security (you’ve never disclosed vulnerabilities)
:cross_mark: Not confusion (a disclaimer solves this)

:white_check_mark: The ability to force customers to repurchase

Is that the business model you want?
Is that the legacy you want for HQPlayer?
Is that worth the reputational cost?


10. The Respect You’ve Lost

This forum user you refused an installer to:

  • Paid you £300
  • Used your software successfully for 4 years
  • Encountered a problem (hard drive failure) anyone could have
  • Made a reasonable request (reinstall what they purchased)
  • Got dismissed with “support has ended”

They did everything right. You did everything wrong.

And now they’re:

  • Filing consumer complaints
  • Documenting your website’s misleading claims
  • Warning other potential customers
  • Creating permanent public records

All because you wouldn’t provide a file that costs you nothing to host.


The Bottom Line

Jussi, you’re a talented developer who’s built something technically impressive.

But you’re sabotaging your own success with business practices that:

  • Violate consumer protection laws
  • Damage your reputation
  • Cost more time than they save
  • Alienate paying customers
  • Create unnecessary conflict

The fix is simple. The cost is zero. The benefit is enormous.

Why are you choosing the hard path?


A Challenge:

If you genuinely believe your installer removal policy is justified and defensible:

  • Explain it publicly on your website
  • State the reasons clearly in the purchase flow
  • Warn customers upfront that access will be removed

If you’re unwilling to do that, you know the policy is indefensible.

The silence is the tell.


Respectfully,

Someone who wants to see HQPlayer succeed, but not like this.

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Bad Comparison. Here’s Why:

Microsoft Vista:

  • :white_check_mark: 10-year support lifecycle disclosed upfront
  • :white_check_mark: Free upgrades offered for years
  • :white_check_mark: Still available to Volume License holders
  • :white_check_mark: Removed for documented security risks

HQPlayer v4:

  • :cross_mark: Installer removal never disclosed
  • :cross_mark: Upgrades cost nearly full price (~£260)
  • :cross_mark: No access for anyone
  • :cross_mark: Removed to force repurchases

Better Comparisons:

Perpetual license software still providing downloads:

  • Adobe CS6 (11+ years discontinued) :white_check_mark:
  • Jetbrains old IDEs :white_check_mark:
  • Steam games from 2005 :white_check_mark:
  • Microsoft Office 2010 :white_check_mark:

HQPlayer v4 (<1 year discontinued) :cross_mark:


If it’s defensible, why isn’t it on the website?

Even Microsoft treats customers better than this.

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IIRC, the two tiers I had was 15% and 30% depending on time from v4 purchase to v5 release. People who purchased v4 within three months before v5 release got free upgrade.

Jussi - you’ve shown up to correct discount percentages but said nothing about the actual issue?

I have a valid v4 license. You won’t provide the installer. Why?

The upgrade pricing is completely beside the point. I’m not asking for v5 for free. I’m asking why I can’t access v4, which I already paid for.

This is your opportunity to explain the policy rather than nitpick discount details.

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HQPlayer Desktop v4 was release April 2019. Sales ended on May 5th 2023. At that time oit was announced that two year maintenance period starts. Support ended on May 5th 2025. So it had six years support lifecycle.

Support ending was also announced several times beforehand.

I prefer to keep the price low for new users as well. Which means that the discounts are small too. If you look at Adobe Elements product range, they make new release about yearly, and upgrade to next version is full price, no discounts.

Another alternative they offer is subscription.

It costs money… Like answering to this post as well.

And it makes the website messy with huge number of alternative downloads. When v4 was still available for download, many accidentally downloaded v4 for trial and not v5.

Let me translate your response:

“It costs money” = Hosting a few files is too expensive for a company charging £300/license

“Makes the website messy” = Website UX is more important than customers accessing their purchases

“Trial users got confused” = Better to lock out paying customers than add a clearly labeled archive section

These aren’t reasons. These are excuses. And weak ones at that.

Every other software company manages to host legacy installers without going bankrupt or having “messy websites.” This is a choice, not a necessity.

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If someone has not upgraded yet from earlier version to v5, I don’t really expect them to do it later either. Some people even asked for upgrade discount coupons, but about 10 of those were left unused and are now void. We personally notified them before the expiration.

I have got completely different kind of feedback. I have one hired person working as support.

Support costs money, deciding to stick on obsolete product version, you decide that you don’t need continued support either.