Some experiments with usb to dac earlier this week and over the last weekend suggested variation across usb from windows vs. usb from my android phone (windows out was noisier than samsung android out). So, besides other p(references) from dac creators, reviewers, I am finding it increasingly easy to believe that there really is a problem with usb. (all tests have been with mojo 2).
So, introducing a usb isolator sounds the right ‘direction’ / aligned. Thanks. I would still hope for a simpler optical out from the rock directly - though am switching to the ‘standard’ ethernet/wifi based separation from the rock (core), with optical into the dac.
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w.r.t. mojo-2 optical vs usb, another experiment as below (admittedly short, ~ an hour of back and forth), suggested that even for mojo 2, the optical route is audibly cleaner than the usb input.
- windows → wifi → CCA → optical → mojo 2 → headphones
- windows → usb-c → mojo2 → headphones
based on Rob’s cited preference, as well as Darko’s, other reviewer measurements (goldenears), and some of my very rudimentary experiments taking usb out of the loop, am still working with the conviction that there is something (very, very real), even for mojo 2, to ‘optical preferred over usb’. Thanks.
Beside the HS02 after the usb output from the NUC, I use an Acousence Giso DS Isolator in front of the RJ45 NUC Input.
As mentioned before, the most things that could be solved with this tools are not or barely in the audible range.
Only like to provide “good” technical circumstances in my setup, wanted to do some measurements someday….but procrastinated….
But some nice people did measurement of those tools that seemed useful to me. The guy that measured the HS-02 was Archimago and he doesn’t seem to be money driven at all. I forgot about the guy who did the Giso measurement.
It depends on if you are talking about high frequency noise or low frequency noise over USB. Most of this comes from the power supply on your PC or other device you are trying to connect to your DAC. You can use an isolator to remove the power from the cable if your DAC doesn’t require that power (most do). I use a really good USB audio cable with filters on both ends between my NUC 10 ROCK and my Denafrips DAC and the sound floor is dead black. I use an spdf optical connection between my PC and the DAC. It’s just fine for gaming but the audio is not as good as the USB connection from the ROCK.
Any specific ‘filters’? Thanks.
(Update: I have had a NUC 10 ROCK setup for the last week or so, and that’s working out well. Am planning a ropieee on a pi4 this week (no HAT for now). The USB out from PC issue is improved with a cable upgrade, yes.)
This is the best USB audio cable I’ve found anywhere near this price level. These filters knock out a lot more noise than the filled plastic type found on most cables at this price. You could pay 4-5x more and not get anything better:
USB Audio Cable
Dean
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Update: Though have not met and have moved away from the original ‘idea’ of a rock with toslink, I have now a more ‘standard’ setup and am very happy with it - sharing:
Setup A:
- Rock on NUC 10 i3
- RPi4 + HifiBerry DigiPro 2 + RopieeeXL
- decent (not high end) Optical/toslink out
- Chord Mojo 2 to headphones (significant (for me): no Roon DSP, let Mojo 2 handle all)
Setup B (TV / HT setup):
- Same Core as above (rock)
- SqueezeBox streaming at Max PCM, with Headroom)
- GoogleTV with SqueezeBox streaming (SB Player) app as client (delighted with this btw - vs a CCA that is, higher bitrate and cleaner setup)
- Max PCM out to HT/speakers, all ‘effects’ off (let Roon / recording / mastering dictate ‘processing’)
If at all, upgrades will be to speakers/dac and headphones (which is where I wanted to be, w.r.t. the chain).
Side notes:
- Have both Tidal and Qobuz, and preferring Qobuz (esp into the mojo 2, probably MQA-processing or lack thereof related effect)
- During this time, I did go back to Audirvana (before the HifiBerry DigiPro2 with optical was set up) - and was concerned about not being able to achieve achieving at par SQ through the roon chain, even with Rpi. Very happily, adding the hat and optical out (instead of usb-c) into mojo 2 made any SQ difference imperceptible to me, and often was able to achieve better satisfaction with mojo 2 ‘controls’ with the roon-rpi+hat-optical-mojo2 chain than with the audirvana-pc-usb-mojo2 chain. Not apples to apples at all, however, to me indicating that pc + usb noise quietening are a significant value add for SQ.
Above is not meant to pass any judgment - am very thankful for all guidance on this forum. Happy listening.
(One open question: as I am no longer in immediate need of a rock with toslink solution (original query for this thread), and as there does not appear to be an exact solution (yet) - is there value in marking a specific post as the ‘solution’ on this thread? (many of these posts helped in the exact required direction of noise reduction, and one specifically is helping progress the rock + toslink direction, which I still believe is a valuable proposition to serve.)
Cheers.
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Nice setup. It’s very similar to what I use in my home office where I have a NUC10i7 with USB going to a Denafrips DAC for Roon. I run a toslink fiberoptics cable to the DAC from my PC (mostly for gaming audio) and run a digital COAX cable to the DAC from a Meridian CD transport since I still have a number of rare CD’s I’ve never got around to ripping.
Glad you “slow and steady” worked through it all.Getting off a typical PC USB out is one of the best low hanging fruit SQ improvements you can make. A Pi with a good hat is a lot of bang for the buck and in my experience you’ve got to get well into the 2K + budget to be noticeably better. I spent a good long time with a Pi2AES and a IFI Power Elite for clean 5V.
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