Is there any sound quality improvement with the new Roon 1.8? What are the improvements, if any?

You obviously haven’t been on a date from tinder if you think digital manipulation is a good thing.

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Admittedly, it’s a tangent, but I think it’s a useful analogy and @WiWavelength has pretty much summed up what I was trying to say by mentioning film simulation modes, JPEG vs RAW etc.

So I shoot RAW as I want control over any subsequent edits, and I want bit perfect delivery of my music so I can decide which, if any, enhancements to apply. I don’t want Roon, Adobe or my camera making those decisions for me.

Check out the Beyerdynamic Amiron’s. I got a Home (semi-open) pair at half price on Black Friday and they are wonderful. Very comfortable too, and I can’t stand the feel of headphones. Considering a closed wireless pair as well.

The only thing you are keep proving here is that you still don’t understand what the term Bit Perfect maenas.Maybe you are confused by the word “perfect” in it which might be mistaking as if Bit Perfect means the absoilute best quality ever achievable. No, Bit Perfect means that the information is transported intact. Roon is an audio transport.

You keep asking the pizaa courier if he can make the pizza taste better while delivering it to you. Offcoarse you can ask the courier if he ads some galapenos to your pizza to make it taste better according to your taste but that is not his job is it? Now Roon, or any other audio player are nothng more than the pizza courier. Their job is to deliver the pizza just like it has left the restauarant. Roon’s job is to deliver the music just like it left the Tidal/Qobuz/home server.

You keep asking for sound manipulation. That is not what this topic was about. This topic is about the sound difference in between one bit perfect stream and another one. Manipulations have nothing to do with it.This has been explained many times to you now but you still don’t seem to get it.

You analogy with mastering on headphones while someone might be playing on B&W speakers is another bad analogy. Yes you can manipulate sound to make it sound better but that highly depends on the situation. Again, you can not simply enhance the sound in general for every situation. That is why the sound has to be delivered bit perfect first. What you do with it after that is fully up to you. It is not a believe, it is not a relgion, it is not marketing, there are no bit perfect defenders. Please try to understand the difference in transporting and manipulating. That is where the understanding between you and others constantly seems to go wrong.

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As far as the RAW convertor analogy goes, a base RAW file will be perceived differently depending on which conversion software engine is used, i.e. Lightroom will start at a different point than Capture One - of course one could manipulate both to appear identical after the fact. Some say C1 is a better and richer base conversion than LR. So yes, software can make a difference to an unadulterated RAW file. Not sure how this analogy translates to a bit perfect audio file though.

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@Samuel_Hau
Just because Roon offers “bit-perfect digital transport” doesn’t mean your system at home sounds good, too. A lot of things can go wrong before and after your speakers convert electrical signals into sound waves. “Bit-perfect transport” is only a prerequisite for “high fidelity” (in its literal sense), it doesn’t guarantee customer satisfaction…

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I laughed so hard, I nearly spat my coffee out! :rofl:

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Just to make things a touch more contentious, I think what you really want in life is MQA, someone else making a choice for you as how to “improve” sound quality.

In seriousness though, going off on a tangent about what perfect really means is irrelevant. The reason several people have tried to hammer the point home of bit perfection is that the original premise, which this thread was started on was, can roon improve sound like other software vendors have. It has since been shown that they are delivering bit perfect files, and as an extension the same sound. So any perceived difference between software is in your mind. Thus undermining the original premise.

Maybe one day, with a lot of research in psychoacoustics and AI software could auto EQ music to your personal preference. Why not, but this technology doesn’t exist and no one is doing this. So with current technology roon can not improve sound quality. End of story.

Yes, better speaker design, better and easier to use room treatment, better and easier to use DSP (AI could be particularly useful in all these applications). And if we really want to wish, some sort of tissue regeneration (or whatever it takes) to reverse age-related changes in ability to hear frequencies. If only I could hear the same frequencies now that I heard at age 5. :wink:

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I think this bot has just failed the Turing test.

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If you want to properly apply your analogy, Roon is the sender of the picture. Your Mac is the equivalent of a DAC. Your monitor is the equivalent of an amp/speaker combo. Roon is sending you a pristine, bit-perfect picture. Your opportunity to “improve” it exists in your DAC and subsequent analog playback chain. That’s exactly what happens and fits your analogy quite well. Outside of your analogy, Roon also provides tools to edit the original picture (ie: alter the bits) to suit your taste. Roon can’t predict what would please you so provides the tools for you to do it yourself. Not sure how any of that can automagically result in so-called improved sound quality which is purely subjective by definition.

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For the visual learners! :rofl:

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Sorry tried to put a picture of flogging a dead horse. That will teach me for trying to be clever!

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That’s the problem, people have presented scientific proof, measurements, sound logical arguments and your responses have consistently ignored them and repeated the same few stock phrases.

Heck, I even granted that it was possible in theory to do what you had in mind and auto modify sound to a users preference. Though the tech doesn’t exist and you responded with yet another stock response about marketing material.

We can’t have a meaningful conversation if we can’t agree on some fundamentals and definitions. And thus far you’ve evaded this good faith convention.

It’s important as a start, to agree what we are even talking about and not continuously shift the goal posts.

Original Question, Can Roon sound as good as other bit perfect delivery software platforms.

Answer. Yes, it already does, because they all sound the same.

If you want to start a thread about future possibilities in automagic DSP options, cool that’s a valid conversation but it’s not what we are talking about.

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Just curious, why would you want Roon to sauce your goose? What if others prefer more or less? I think Roon assumes most want to taste what the chef prepared, and leaves the saucing to individual taste.
Genuine question here.

The clue is in the name

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Pro photographer for 35 years - I know what a raw RAW file looks like. But thank you nonetheless.

Please, the only thing you are doing here is showing how little you understand what the term “bit perfect” stands for. You keep mixing things up. Please try to understand what people are saying here and please stop ranting about “believe” “science” and other nonsense.

Bit perfect is perfect for some but not for all is the most ridicilous nonsense statement there is. You completely don’t understand it. Please, before posting another post try to understand the term “bit perfect” I know what point you are trying to make but you are confused about transportation and manipulation. So as long you can’t differentiate between the two all discussion from this point is completely useless. There are no “bit perfect crowd” “bit perfect believers” There us no “exitement about bit perfect” that is all made up by you. Stop accusing other from things you don’t understand.

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Based on the current definition of “perfect sound”, yes. The whole audio industry is built on this premise.

And If we are going to go back and read the title, best read the body as well. The claim is that other software has improved sound and roon should do the same.

This is plainly not true.

I’m bending over backwards here to agree with you, we might learn something in the future which leads to a change to this definition but as of yet we aren’t there. And really it would more likely be a change to mastering or playback devices, bit perfect transport would still stand.