Is there any sound quality improvement with the new Roon 1.8? What are the improvements, if any?

Roon Software Discussion
85

And are building servers with Xeon processors :man_shrugging:

2 Likes
86

I asked the same question a few posts ago; yet people insist that bit-perfect can be improved. No, it CANNOT; whatever sound improvements one may hear beyond that are in the analogue space. Unless one abandons the bit-perfect paradigm and applies filters, of course.

3 Likes
87

Agree.

If your jacket is not waterproof and you get wet when it rains, do you get a better jacket, or do you get dryer rain?

In other words, if your DAC sounds better or worse with a different Ethernet cable or USB cable. Swap the DAC. No matter how much it costs.

4 Likes
88

An air purifier will be added for clearer wifi to allow better streaming.
(I can’t hold it anymore, :rofl: :rofl: woehaha :joy:)

4 Likes
89

Squeezelite sounds really better! So no doubts that there’s space to improve.

90

I totally agree that measurements can not prove a subjective quality, like X sounds better than Y. And sure ADC’s have their own quirks, but you can control for these by repeating each test and calibrating for your ADC’s quirks.

Measurements can, on the other hand definitely prove the following

  • If memory caching has an impact on sound
  • If a Xeon or whatever latest cpu, or multiple has an impact on sound.
  • If cables / switches impact sound.
  • If Roon’s linear phase filter has the same impact as HQPlayers
  • If Roon upsampling vs. DAC upsampling has an impact on sound.
  • If RAAT/DLNA/Squeeze or whatever has an impact on sound.
  • If special rocks on top of your equipment have an impact on sound
  • Most of the nonsense that gets passed off as “I can hear a difference because I have a system that is good enough”

Maybe software X applies EQ, eg a volume boost durning playback and this is enough to convince consumers that it sounds better, but this can be measured. You may very well prefer X over Y, but it doesn’t have to be an unfounded opinion.

3 Likes
91

So if it objectively sounds better, then we can only have either of the following:

  • Roon is NOT bit-perfect and its internal software processes interfere with the purity of the source sound; or

  • Squeezelite is NOT bit-perfect and makes things sound better with the use of filters.

4 Likes
92

I suspect this is the case, not only with SqueezeLite, but also with Audirvana.

My suspicion with Audirvana is that they pump up the mid range frequencies causing some people to say it sounds ‘better’.

1 Like
93

I posted this elsewhere regarding Roon SQ…

2 Likes
94

Roon IS bit-perfect.

RME provides a bit test.

From the RME web site:

A bit test is used to check the playback path for unwanted changes in the playback data. Playback software can cut bits, add dither, or change the level - without these changes becoming noticed easily. A poorly programmed driver can manipulate bits, and a playback hardware could be both badly designed and defective (hanging bits, swapped bits). Even such features as proper channel assignment, left/right synchronicity and polarity can be tested by a well-made bit test.

With a bit test, such errors can be detected and - more importantly - excluded.

If you got a RME DAC, simply add these bit patterns to your library and play them. Playing it through Roon they arrive unaltered on the DAC and the DAC recognises them.

I tried it using Ethernet and WiFi

  • Auralic Aries G1, SPDIF Coax/Toslink andUSB
  • Bluesound Node 2i, SPDIF Coax and USB
  • DAC directly connected to a MAC with exclusive mode, Toslink and USB

The DAC always reported bit-perfect up to the supported level of the connection through the whole chain.

8 Likes
95

Which leads to Ricardo’s option B, squeeze lite is not bit perfect.

or Option C.

They produce the exact same sound and any perceived difference is an illusion.

3 Likes
96

Can you try Squeezelite and put us all out of our misery? Presumably it detects Roon’s convolution filters or even EQ? I’m genuinely curious and if the DAC wasn’t so pricey and unnecessary from a personal POV I might have bought one. Really neat feature. :slight_smile:

97

Many of us in the Round Earth Society suspect that there is a fourth option whereby bit-perfect Roon and bit-perfect Squeezelite can actually sound different in fact. The scientists have not yet blessed whatever other factors are at play…

BTW, the MQA folks insist their files must be received bit-perfect for decoding, and both LMS and RAAT deliver.

1 Like
98

I hope the “Round Earth Society” is in opposition to the flat earth society, and a claim to sanity and not in fact some really whacky group. Is the earth round, I was given to the impression that it was a slightly squeezed sphere, but that’s probably a chat for another time.

Again, this could be measured, it is not an entirely subjective statement. Never mind that A and B deliver the same data (which you suggest they do and I have no reason to disbelieve), but does it result in the exact same analogue output that could be recorded with an ADC and compared.

If the results are different, then this would need to be investigated and better understood, but there would be a reason for it. Eg. One protocol is differently implemented on the end point.

On the other hand, if the measured output is the same, then we are back to where we started, any perceived difference is an illusion.

99

Please tell me which professional technical qualifications, or courses in any branch of engineering or science or medicine, or which text books, or published papers, make any reference to “software jitter”. Where is it defined? How is it measured?

Searching google for “fruit flies like a banana” produces hundreds of hits. Searching google for “software jitter” produces none. Just because you can put words together and make them into a sentence does not make the sentence unambiguously true.

2 Likes
100

I can’t speak for the entire Society, who should all agree with you that there must be a reason for any difference, but personally hold out hope that we will find, and measure, the value of current bits-are-bits blasphemers like my etherREGEN switch in the future.

1 Like
101

Oblate spheroid, I believe.

2 Likes
102

Also, isn’t it possible that Squeezelite and Roon are playing at different volumes (not sure whether this is possible in this setting - I don’t mean digitally different volumes, because if they were it wouldn’t be a bit-perfect match which I am certainly happy to believe is the case; I mean analoguely different volumes). Thanks.

1 Like
103

I’m sure Roon would be more than glad to fix it if such paying subscribers could explain to them exactly what’s wrong with the current sound quality. In terms that someone other than the reporters could understand and perceive. So the ball’s sort of in the reporter’s court.

But what a company would “focus on” – that’s a management decision, not a customer decision. I imagine that they focus on whatever their business strategy tells them will give them the best cost/benefit trade-off.

104

Well maybe.

Just out of interest, I compared a couple of hi-fi brand USB cables with the kind that comes bundled with computer peripherals. These were connected in turn between my Nucleus and (Nagra) DAC. The hi-fi cables produced very similar results, but the other (cheap) cable sounded flat and muffled by comparison. Is this really the fault of the DAC?