But that implies that Roon is not bit perfect, doesn’t it?
Agree with that. 
BTW - I’ve read Roon stating (many times) that they, in the absence of any DSP, output bit perfect. I guess Lumin would say the same thing?
I agree Roon stated several times that the output is bit perfect.
Surely this was verified and tested with all possible devices that can act as Roon Core to ensure all deliver an absolute identical sound image independent from any hardware influence.
Anyhow, subjectively - the Lumin App still sounds better 
Roon is bit perfect (unless you configure it in a way to not get the bit perfect output). This is guaranteed. Otherwise all those MQA cannot be authenticated by a MQA DAC. Those with a HDCD DAC (with a HDCD indicator) can also test HDCD albums if you don’t want to use MQA.
Those with RME DAC can also use its proprietary bit perfect test signal.
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Yes, I understand. I was offering an argument by inoculation.
So, we all agree that without DSP Roon is bit perfect.
If the Lumin software on a T2 sounds different than a Roon bit perfect stream on the same T2, then the next question is whether Lumin software is bit perfect without any DSP.
Can/does Lumin’s T2 software supply a bit perfect stream?
To reverse-engineer your question - Roon has very versatile DSP capabilities (at least in the GUI) - which are superior to those offered in the Lumin App, I hence assume it would be no problem to match any other sound signature with Roon - be it bit perfect or DSP colored, wouldn‘t it ?
I guess. It would require some fussing.
Maybe @wklie has some suggestions as how Roon can output the Lumin T2 sounds you prefer.
I have a conjecture why Lumin is slightly better than Roon in sound quality with everything else held constant (same wires, router, power conditioner, stock power supply and no upsampling and same file in the same spot). My Roon software resides in the same hardware as the SSD. The Lumin software and hardware resides in Lumin unit. The slight noise between Roon software and SSD is picked up in the digital signal. “better” is a matter of preference. Lumin sound is more delicate and refined. Roon sound via Lumin is more saturated and a touch compressed. Just my 2 cents.
The complaint seems to be steriity and compression, not noise?
There are similar posts in other Roon Audio Gear Talk sections btw - f.e. Auralic - re the Aries G2.1 Roon vs Lightning DS having a different sound signature
Sounds like you are blaming a digital signal for analog faults.
As I see it, there are only three explanations why on the same T2 with the same bit perfect stream, but differing only by processing software, a difference in SQ is heard.
- Roon is not delivering bit perfect data.
- Lumin software is not delivering bit perfect data.
- It’s the listener’s psycho-acoustic imagination.
Since everyone agrees that Roon is delivering bit perfect data, that leaves only explanation 2 or 3.
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It can’t be bit perfect if either device is applying volume controls though right?
That aside, maybe the user is just hearing minute volume differences and that is influencing a preference?
A similar experience was posted in the Auralic section with an Aries G2.1, with Auralic stating at least as often as Roon being bit perfect.
Hence it can only be (a somewhat widespread) psycho-acoustic issue affecting some of us.
I’ve always suspected that when someone states a piece of software, e.g. Audirvana, sounds better than Roon that that software was pumping up something behind the scenes.
I’d never make that accusation against Lumin, however.
Agreed. Roon is plumbing, but for sure not screwing.
„RAAT is plumbing. It gets the audio from point A to point B without screwing it up, and without bringing limitations to the table that might compel the software/hardware on either side of it to screw things up.“
You don’t even need to trust me or Audirvana or anyone who makes the software involved. You just need either a DAC that can be do proprietary bitperfect test (e.g. RME), MQA DAC, or HDCD DAC, to prove or disprove this claim.
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I am interested in why you think that under the same conditions there is a perceived difference between Roon and Lumin software.
Similar symptom is being observed between Roon and the Linn audio Linn app - Somehow the Linn app sounds better than Roon, and I’ve been wondering about it since day 1 I played Roon. Note that I do not do any DSP from Roon, just lossless.
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Unfortunately, I share your fate (@Protyreus). So far, Roon has been the best for me in terms of ease of use. Of course, also the sound. I was happy. In March, the Lumin P1 came to my equipment. My equipment climbed a new sound level. Until I compared the Lumin app and Roon. The differences, exactly as you described them.
About the Lumin App:
Generous sense of space,
Sounds appear out of nowhere,
precise, like voices carved into space,
cleanly and naturally rendered instruments
With Roon, a cloth covers everything. Slightly muffled, washed out.
The transmission paths are the same. My server is an Innuos Zenith. There I switch either Roon or UPnP active for comparison purposes.
The differences are clear and distinct. The differences within Roon by adjusting the DSP settings are almost imperceptible.
Unfortunately, the Lumin App is on the part of operation, sorry, stone age.
Current status: Lumin P1 and Roon do not work well together.
I will soon experiment at my dealer in Dresden.
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Hallo Uwe,
Thanks for your sharing your comparable experience.
Just FYI, there are similar threads and observations from other brands / devices in these forums.
I personally do find the Lumin App „fit for purpose“ and also do not think this is a specific Lumin issue.
I keep switching between Roon and the Lumin App.
The big gain of Roon for me is actually this great community and the open minded bunch of true audio enthusiasts across a wide wingspan of topics and hardware in here.
Therefore - herzlich willkommen
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Many people running Innuos as Roon Core seem to swear that either Innuos own software or other sounds better. I can almost see a pattern here with the Innuos underpowered and moderately isolated Core/Player. Roon does put more demands on the server and transport, yes. And as such many transports and servers may sound better with less demanding solutions.
And yes, i have owned both Lumin, Innuos and others.
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