Yes, I had an email from a Label relations department manager in Naxos yesterday saying that he’s unsure why this is happening, and that his team would be speaking to Qobuz directly… We’ll see what happens.
So it’s a bug and not a licensing dispute?
That’s … uh … wild. Really strange how it varies from album to album (for some albums all the tracks are “unavailable”; for some it’s just a track or two; for yet others, the entire album is still available).
Well, it could well be; simply because of the arbitrariness of which tracks are made unavailable.
Here is more detail on the four examples that I gave to BIS Records as evidence:
- Anne Sofie von Otter - A Simple Song (EAN 7318599923277) – all tracks unavailable. Qobuz has a note on the album page that “Hi-Res version only available in download”, i.e. purchase. My subscription is for Hi-Res albums, so I should really be able to play this album?
- ALFVEN: Symphonies and Rhapsodies (EAN 7318591478805) – CD1: only track 7 available. CD2: only track 5 available. CD3: only tracks 6-12 available. CD4 – all tracks unavailable. CD 5: tracks 5 and 8 unavailable.
- Sibelius: Kullervo & Kortekangas (EAN 7318599990484) – CD1: all tracks unavailable. CD2: track 8 unavailable.
- Light, Water, Rainbow (EAN 7318599920757) – only track 6 available.
Over at the Audiophile Style forum there is an official Qobuz thread in which Qobuz employees are actively answering questions. They answered to a member asking about why in albums tracks got replaced by 30s samples, that it is a known issue and that Qobuz is working on it.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/46611-official-qobuz-issues-thread/page/123/#comments
This is what I got from Qobuz today and it is a licensing problem that may not have a solution:
"Hi,
Thanks for contacting Qobuz’s support. I hope you’re doing well in these perplexing times. I’m happy to help.
It appears that the rights holders have made many of their releases only available for purchase. Do you mind providing me a direct link to the releases in question?
I will ask our team to see if we can get them to reinstate streaming rights. However, as this is down to the rights holders’ sole discretion, I cannot make any promises. Thanks for understanding. However these releases are available for purchase from our store.
The supply department will have to look into this further. I’ll be back in touch with you as soon as I have heard more about your case. Thanks for your patience.
Regards,
Sébastien from Qobuz"
So, it is a licensing issue. That does not fare well for Qobuz. Again, the question is, why not the same problem with Tidal? Are there companies or people trying to damage Qobuz?
Two points about that message:
- It might very well be the case for complete albums, but not, I would suggest for albums that have some tracks being randomly removed.
- This would seem to run contrary to the wishes of the labels themselves (e.g. BIS Records). Perhaps Naxos (as the digital aggregator) are overriding them?
This message is quite unusual - that labels would unilaterally withdraw streaming rights without any discussion at all with the service provider or even providing the service provider with prior warning. This is even more so given that the labels’ products continue to be available on other streaming services. This is not normal business relationships.
I suspect the writer of the message does not really know the answer.
My inclination is to believe that this is a technical problem somewhere along the line. Checking a few releases - the tracks that are not available for streaming appear to be the same as those that can only be purchased as part of the whole album (that is not available for individual purchase). Again this problem seems only to affect earlier releases and not the latest releases - which are the ones that you would expect to have more limited streaming access.
That this discussion is on Roon site and is about a problem over which Roon has no direct control is a sad reflection on Qobuz and its customer relationships. It appears that it is very hard to get any definitive information on this issue out of Qobuz - or even any top level acknowledgement that it exists. That a reference to this problem was deleted from Facebook, shows that there is a problem. I really have to add - that another French company, which makes a superb product (Devialet) seems to have the same approach to customer relationships. I wonder if this is a French thing or am I drawing a long bow.
People should keep that in mind when they reach for the trigger to criticise Roon - which is exemplary in its communication with customers - whether the news might be good or bad (form example, the latest information about some end points no longer being supported)
Now I can’t even buy recordings from Qobuz. Tried to buy one but when it goes to PayPal, nothing happens and I get a blank screen. The recording us still in the basket but I can’t pay. Seems there is a serious problems in Qobuz. Hackers perhaps? Hope they have good security for the sake of all us customers.
This happened to me - you appear to get a blank screen - however if you toggle the screen up you will find the PayPal details there.
Just read a forum (Steve Hoffman) and the problem with PayPal started in June. Seems it is very expensive compared to using credit cards. Seems Qobuz drops and reinstates PayPal periodically. This is not the way to run a business. No warning about PayPal.
Thanks for this information. This is the first communication I have seen from Qobuz that states that the problem will be fixed. It amazes me that Qobuz has chosen not to communicate with its customers about this issue and I find out what is going on through third party sites.
I wouldn’t be too happy before it is finally fixed. This seems to contradict the answer that Jose_Auger received above:
It looks as though BIS albums have now been reinstated into the Qobuz streaming catalogue… Certainly the four examples that I had have now got all their tracks available for streaming again…
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Who knows…but the “It appears that the rights holders have made many of their releases only available for purchase” was the earlier response many of us got from customer service. As far as a timely fix, I’m not overly optimistic. I grew frustrated with Tidal when they acknowledged the severe flutter (from digital watermarking) on tons of Universal catalog titles, and claimed to be “awaiting redelivery” of those tracks from Universal. For several years, those same compromised versions were up, and I’m still not sure all have been replaced. While not blaming Roon in any way for this, I DO hope that whatever is going on with Qobuz on this issue is resolved in terms of what our experience is with Roon. At the moment, the only solution is to check the Qobuz app for the status…or wait for the dreaded Roon error message.
I wonder if that’s because you specifically complained about those four to BIS. Many (most?) BIS recordings do not seem to be fixed ATM:
If so, then complain to BIS directly, quoting the albums and missing tracks, would be my suggestion…
My brief survey of 14 BIS albums on Qobuz yielded 4 which were complete and 10 which were missing some or all tracks.
Here is what the CEO of BIS wrote to me, in response
Dear M. Distler,
I am aware of this - several persons have written to me. I was NOT aware that this also concerns other labels, which - in a way - comforts me, since that points at this being a technical problem with Qobuz, nothing from our side or that of our aggregator.
So I can do no more that suggest that you go to Apple instead and copy this to my aggregator, which I am doing BCC.I am so sorry, but, thankfully, we have an oligopoly, with several other sources presenting the same things in the same quality, so, basically, no great harm is done. Surely Qobuz has to return your subscription money, if they cannot deliver what they have contracted to do.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with us, and I am totally unable to fix the problem, since I don’t even know why it is there in the first place.
Best - Robert (von Bahr, CEO, BIS Records)
You may copy this mail into the discussion forum. I am not a member, so don’t know how. At least I answer, though…
So, there you have it: not a licensing dispute, but not resolved either. 