Ha ha ha…
IMHO, support of only end-to-end is going to mean failure. As far as I can tell this was not the message before CES - proven by Auralic having it working on the Aries.
I agree that TIDAL might not benefit from MQA’d redbook in terms of bandwidth use since the container looks to be a flac in 24/48. However, it might benefit from the beautification filters.
I appreciate the candor.
I don’t think MQA has been overhyped. I believe perhaps it’s developers may have underestimated its impact and are still analyzing how to best monetize the technology.
I think this is key for the for the foreseeable future. Yes, the Auralic situation is a major PR mess, but the sarcasm, speculation and ‘money making scheme’ allegations are getting old fast. As far as I’m concerned, MQA could be Bob Stuarts legacy to digital music, but only history will prove it’s worth. The mess will sort itself out quickly, but both the MQA concept and Stuart’s previous achievements justify some expectation.
Given the state of MQA in Meridian-land, at least it’s sure they did not get much preferential treatment…
That seems like a very plausible explanation, yet one that should have also been foreseen. It seems to me this issue is already accounted for in Roon, does Auralic not provide for a max setting?
I agree with the wait and see approach in regards to MQA and am personally not expecting on seeing any statements until the next big trade show.
i’m cautiously optimistic on the benefits on MQA, but there are a lot of things that still need to some together. Personally even if MQA were to explode in the next 6 months to a year, Roon enabled/certified? products will easily have the bigger impact for my day to day listening.
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The MQA Flying Circus
Is it only me ? Please correct me if I’m the insane one.
First it the was that poor HW manufacturer. Now we pass it over to the webshops and record companies.
Onkyo is first out.
The 2L MQA stereo files are sold as FLAC 24/352.8. Other MQA are sold as 16/44.
Costumers may start to wonder what they are buying. If they buy at all ? Ever ?
The 2L store was very clear about the different formats sold, except about resolution of the MQA file. And it is a very nice gesture to allow people to test the formats.
Bob now seems to copy Apple’s communications strategy, and only gives interviews to people who do not ask critical questions. Bob says MQA is a philosophy, it’s many thing. You can’t purchase that. (Sell maybe to a CEO?)
Before we used to understand the meaning of MP3, CD format, and 24/96. You knew what you purchased. Now we have a something with hidden requirements in both ends, in an end to end game changing technology. Are there a Guinness in confusion ? You are hereby nominated.
Now they (Onkyo/7Digital) do not tell you that the 352.8 actually is a 44.1 compressed file.
Or that the 16/44.1 is a redbook encoded CD. (I guess, cause are the master really in that format). Remember 2L sell redbook as 24/44.1
They do not tell you that the transport in this philosophy can take 6 forms, and that even if your MQA DAC is only 192, it can eat 384, cause that is our (MQA) faith.
Original Redbok can be both 16 and 24. Proven so by the two webshops.
What are the requirements for a record company to be allowed to use the MQA logo?
Is it a commercial secret ?
We for sure discovered one requirement on FB! when it came to transporting and decoding the format.
Will an US solicitor claim that the webshop are selling something not according to the description. Hey, these guys has money. Lets sue them.
For us (me) that has tried to understand the format for some days, it maybe clear, but does the average person understand that purchase a MQA FLAC 24/352.8 or a 24/88.8, will in both cases give him a 24/44.1 unless he has a MQA DAC ?
Is Roon now the only company that can give us, (or Bob) salvation ? I for sure see the potential if they are allowed to do this multi DAC profile setup.
Plenty of high end DACs with proprietary DAC stages (eg mine’s an EMM Labs XDS1v2, same DAC as DAC2x).
I think a Roon Certified USB DAC is about how Roon software can better optimised the communication to the USB DAC; such as software driver(when used in Windows PC) buffering, latency etc. It probably have less to do on the DAC parameters.
On the other hand a certified MQA DAC requires a more complex approach such as the MQA decoder chip (for instance, a XMOS chipset capable of decoding MQA plus some digital filter optimisation for pre and post ringing) while the DAC chip need able to handle the maximum input sample frequency once MQA is being fold back. It sounds very technical but I work in audio engineering field and have some knowledge on ADC/DAC and some DSP plus analog design for consumer products. EMM Labs XDS1v2 is very good DAC, it is the one that comes with a SACD? Don’t forget they are one of pioneer of DSD technology! I like DAC can do on the fly from PCM to DSD conversion, pretty cool😃
Agree about “Roon certified” DAC.
It looks to me like the MQA issue here is the lack of profiling of the DAC - ie the decoding works best when the particulars of the DAC implementation (ie freq response, phase response, pre/post ringing, etc) are used in the decoding - this is entirely my interpretation. For hardware decoders, it is obviously possible to have one set of parameters baked in the code or some small configuration file. For a software decoder connecting to many different DACs you would need to implement some sort of “profile configuration” akin to the color profile you can create for a computer monitor to show true colors on the screen. I suppose Auralic might have been using a default profile - possibly unknowingly so - and MQA just realized of this limitation. Hard to imagine MQA was not aware since this tech is not that new - I went to a demo in March 2015 in NYC.
Anyway… This is my interpretation. Would be nice for MQA to clear the confusion.
Agreed, the Auralic Aries and Auralic Aries LE are actually (I used to own the Aries with external low noise linear power supply) pure streamers that require an external DAC. However, the Aries Mini, looks interesting; it has built-in DAC, so for MQA to work within MQA specifications are much easier. Looks like MQA is pushing hard for end to end technology. I hope software decoding will be another alternative choice for MQA so we can continue to use our existing DACs.
This unfortunately would mean no MQA for high end DACs! My EmmLabs XDS1v2 will surely never have MQA built in.
I could be completely misunderstanding MQA (perhaps Danny/Brian could chime in on this) …
but is one of the potential problems for MQA that an MQA decoding device should not reveal the decoded stream in digital form I would assume for copyright/copying reasons, in which case this could be MQA struggling to balance the “robust” demands of the recording industry vs the replay side?
If so, could this go some way towards explaining the Auralic mess (a misunderstanding where MQA thought Auralic were going to announce compatible DACs when in fact they announced streamer compatibility with the resultant confusion.
Based on MQA’s public claims, it’s fair to assume that they would be very sensitive to a product that exposed a DAC-optimized stream over USB/SPDIF ports to be potentially consumed by the wrong DAC.
I’m not sure whether or not is what happened with Auralic or not, and it’s not our place to guess.
Could you explain what you mean by that? Is it different from the potential of being copied?
I was referring to the potential of a user playing an MQA file, seeing the “authenticated” indicator, but not hearing the right thing, since the decode process and DAC were mismatched. This would ruin the integrity of their end-to-end claims.
Thanks for clarification Brian!
Over at CA Chris has compared the current state of MQA to a “soup sandwich”, no one quite knows what it is.
Consumers want to know two things: What is it ? How much does it cost ?
In the case of an audio feature like MQA these things reduce to: Will I need new recordings ? Will I need new equipment ?
The answer to the recordings question was “yes”. We collectively reeled, clutched pearls and fainted.
We were just getting accommodated to the idea of buying another version of “A Kind of Blue”, consoling ourselves that we may not need a new DAC because Roon, Tidal or Auralic could do the same thing in software, when the great CES debacle hit.
I’m hopeful that we won’t need new equipment to obtain the full benefit of MQA (the product), but until MQA (the company) decides what it is selling (or licensing) we won’t know.
It may well turn out that MQA is a turning point in digital audio; it has already become a case study in marketing.
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+1
Still questions left.
If Andybob was referring to you, please raise your hand…
WOW! 
That’s a lot of hands! LOL
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FWIW posted today: