NUC starting point

My (fanless) PrimeMini 4 i7 temperature operates at 35 degree C.

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Is that with Windows, ROCK, or another OS?

It’s running ROCK

You might want to look at some of custom builds from users like @andybob and @dabassgoesboomboom. If you are pushing the limits of what an i7 in a desktop build can do, NUCs might not get 'er done for you. Doesn’t hurt to get that perspective

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I’m definitely not one of the smarter people you mention here (@andybob and @grossmsj tick those boxes!) but…

I think Kal @mitr had some issues with upsampling DSD64 to DSD256 (and downsampling in reverse) and with multiple channels. Look at his Roon signal path:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-96-roon-dolby-atmos-page-2

I saw you mentioned you have two DSD upsampling Roon Zones. But are you upsampling to DSD to both of these zones at the same time? Or only one zone at a time?

If you are upsampling to DSD256 to one 2-channel zone at any one time, I don’t think a NUC8i7BEH would have any issues.

Since you want to run Win10, I’d really like to recommend an i9-9900 in a big Fractal Design case with big Noctua fan (much quieter than you’d think). But I see you mentioned size & space is an issue.

Small Green Computer do make an i9-9900 in a fanless case (so it’s silent) but it’s a little pricey:

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Definitely not ticking any smarter boxes here. You guys must be thinking of @rugby and @wizardofoz.

This is my current server build. I’ve since added a 5TB HD for storage. It’s only an i7 7700 (not K) with a GTX-970 CUDA, but in HQPlayer it does 256 DSD with EC mods and 512 DSD with xtr-2s filters.

The server runs Windows 10 with a lot of stuff turned off. It only runs RoonServer, HQPlayer and a monitor program. The only problem I have with Windows is that it develops audio hiccups when it wants to upgrade. I could turn autoupgrades off, but I’m happy for it to happen when I power it down. If I forget to power it down then it backs up Roon to a USB stick overnight, which is a kind of fail-happy system.

This server is not silent. The AIO block clicks softly and the radiator has push-pull fans on either side. But silence isn’t a problem because it’s in another room. It runs quite cool, about 45-60 C.

If I was building it again, I’d just use a normal form factor. The mini-ITX is cute, but it’s an expense I could have saved. If anyone is going to use this case then pick an AIO with a lower profile block. The Corsair fits, but it’s a very tight squeeze.

I haven’t had any experience of running multiple DSD 256 streams in Roon, but my guess is that an i7 or i9 would handle two. Roon DSP is optimised for computing efficiency.

HQPlayer, however, is optimised for SQ and has selectable software options well beyond the capability of any current desktop rig. I believe it is limited to a single output stream.

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@Mike_Rubin, what endpoints are you playing to now?
If you are just starting Roon, and love the upsampling already, it’s easy to envision you’ll enjoy convolution filters for room correction, or something similar. I mention this because the combination of DSD upsampling and further DSP (like convolution filters) gets very hard on the CPUs. On top of that, Roon is designed to devote one core to DSP, which can be overrode to split it between two. Take home is you can be driving the CPUs pretty hard. But I don’t know what all the extra cores of an i9 will do for you (they are handy for HQPlayer).
I also don’t know what the thermal trade-off is between a well-ventillated case that’s hidden away vs a closed box with heat sinks. Many of us use RoonServer run headless and tuck it away somewhere, letting ethernet (or wireless) drive our endpoints.

The much higher (25% higher) max boost speed of an i9-9900 (not the additional cores) may have helped Kal, with the example he shared in Stereophile?

Maybe?

That sure would help, I should think. But I only know enough to be dangerous. :slightly_frowning_face:

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For a Roon only box, I can easily recommend a NUC. I built a couple fanless ones.

But if you want the box doing other things also, I’m really surprised at the cost and how quiet my i9-9900K build turned out. Well I’ve since given it to my old man (dad) now but it was mine :grin:

It’s so quiet, I would have no problem having it inside the listening room… something I would probably never do again but if I had no option, it wouldn’t be an audible issue at all. That surprised me. And that’s with high CPU loading sh!t with HQPlayer, that actually runs close to 5GHz max speed for 2 cores.

I compare that to my original NUC’s (in their original cases), laptops and Mac’s I used to used inside the listening rooms - that all ended up sounding like vacuum cleaners when doing DSP !

  • i9-9900K
  • ASRock Phantom Gaming 4 motherboard (cheap!)
  • Fractal Design R6 (good airflow, good sound reduction)
  • Noctua NH-D14 fan (big fan @ low/normal speed with excellent airflow, so quiet!)
  • Seasonic 750W PSU (in case I add a big RTX 2080Ti GPU later, if HQPlayer needs it)

I’m gonna have to build another machine for myself soon and I’ll probably just build the exact same. I wouldn’t gain any new functionality with 10900K (and suitable motherboard) for the higher price.

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Thanks, Scott. I only have a limited amount of space on the corner of the desk, so the NUC’s form factor is the selling point for a separate server. If I can’t get it to fit in that corner, I probably will just stick to my Dell throttled to 99%. :slight_smile:

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Good point about my not being clear about the zone usage. I almost never run more than one at a time, so an i7 might work.

I am familiar with the SGC product. It is expensive but an excellent product. One of my rendus is an optical but it’s upstairs and I can’t run optical cable to it from my basement office, where my desktop resides. I am presently feeding the optical version of the rendu with an uptone etherregen, which is terrific. Perhaps Andrew still has around a non-optical version or two, but I would like to keep this unit in the $1k range.

Endpoints are a microrendu (into a Topping D90 DAC), an ultraRendu (into a Nuprime ida-8 integrated via USB), and an optical Rendu (into a Wyred 4 Sound DSD DAC).

My general purpose Dell, like the other pc’s I have owned, is in a built-in cubby alongside the kneehole of my desk. It is well enough ventilated that it runs about 35c and barely warm to the touch in the cubby except when I run DSD256 at 100% cpu.

If I get a second server, it will sit atop the desk in a space that’s about 1 foot by 1 foot. The rest of the desktop is covered by monitor, speakers on small stands, microrendu, DAC, LPS, and power conditioner. Luckily, I have a pull-out work surface or I couldn’t use the desk to get any work done!

As the system isn’t choking on the Dell at 99% and I don’t do gaming or video editing that requires it to operate at 100%, I can live with using it indefinitely.

However, if I can find something that fits into the open space, isn’t a downgrade from the Dell, and won’t murder a $1k budget, I can see the value of having a dedicated server. Since it will be on the desktop, silent is good, but, as I mentioned in the original post, I don’t insist on fanless, but, while I am working at the desk, silent sometimes is better.

Thanks, @spinaltap.

Sounds like an incredible box and I would love to own something like that. Unfortunately, that looks like a full-size case and I just can’t use that form factor in this application. I have about a square foot in which to park my server, which is why I was inquiring about the NUC. I can squeeze in an LPS for it somewhere else on the desktop, but there’s definitely no room there or elsewhere in the office for a full-sized case.

To show there’s a method to my madness about the need for a mini-sized server that sits on the desktop corner, here are photos of the workspace in question. The new mini would go in the far righthand side of the desktop, behind the speaker, where the microrendu is now.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/ThinkCentre-M720q/p/10T7CTO1WWENUS0/customize?

@SKBubba, thank you! This looks like a terrific option.

On the PrimeComputer website, their configuration page enables you to buy the most basic shell/board in either i3, i5 or i7 guise. You then have the option of installing your own RAM, M.2 SSD, and SATA SSD.

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But don’t forget to order an adapter cable for the SSD (and screws that fit to the design of the Mini) if you do so. They don’t deliver it with the PrimeMini4.