Request for DR metric please

[DrTone (Jeff)]

@RBM

It is not my intention to belittle anything (and I don’t think I have given any reason to think I do). I am just trying to understand why this metric should be available in Roon.

I use it to help me figure what version of a CD I have. All my 12,000 discs are ripped and have been put away in storage. I can take the DR number I generate using foobar2000 and look it up in the DR database and it gives me an idea of what release I have.

Once I know there may be a better sounding version according the people at the hoffman forums I can then start trying to track it down for albums I really care about.

[Sloop_John_B (John B)]

For me is, and don’t get me wrong I think for the value levelling point of you this is a great advantage, that the values are per practically meaningless unless you are comparing two versions of the same album as per this post

What is your highest DR?

I’m presuming then that the only place where the R128 values has relevance is in comparing different masterings of tracks / albums? I still have difficulty here as I thought the DR (R128) value would somehow be an indicator on its own so that I could surmise something with a R128 value of 1 would most likely be a brickwalled mess. So I fully expected this to be 1 [image] but not this [image] And surprisingly (to me) it’s not even that one is 1.0 and the other 1.4. [image] From the g…

If it is an easy thing to use what we more conventionally understand as DR VALUES well and good if it’s not, no harm done and still enjoy Roon as I always have done.

.sjb

[DrTone (Jeff)]

@danny

Right now, between all of your libraries, you have a larger combined DR database than dr.loudness-wars.info – maybe we should make that info shared so you can see if there are better versions of the same album/track… hrm…

That would require all of us to making sure we have the correct CD pressing and date data otherwise all we know is there is another version of an album with better or worst DR values.

Is it the original 86 disc, the 91 remaster or the 2015 remaster, the SHM version, the MFSL version etc etc

[pedalhead (Mark)]

Indeed, excellent ambition but I agree it would be impossible to ensure people were assigning their DR rating to the correct pressing/release. Great to hear @danny and co are interested in this in some form though!

[danny (Danny Dulai)]

@DrTone

That would require all of us to making sure we have the correct CD pressing and date data otherwise all we know is there is another version of an album with better or worst DR values.

@pedalhead

I agree it would be impossible to ensure people were assigning their DR rating to the correct pressing/release.

A design of a product that makes accurate mapping irrelevant would also be helpful… for example, if N users had M discs each with a varying range… only the best of M would need to be identified accurately, and that might be doable manually upon request.

Building crowd-sourced products requires thinking about data in non-accurate-non-concrete terms.

[JSE]

Does that also mean that all our metrics in 1.3 may be used later as a crowd-sourced measurement?
As I expect currently nothing is send back yet to a big Roon database on your side, right?

[danny (Danny Dulai)]

@JSE

Does that also mean that all our metrics in 1.3 may be used later as a crowd-sourced measurement?

we could theoretically allow you send edits back to us

@JSE

As I expect currently nothing is send back yet to a big Roon database on your side, right?

correct.

[JSE]

@danny

we could theoretically allow you send edits back to us

I allow fully!

Please add a switch in one of the next releases so we can start supplying you that data

Btw, I saw you mentioned something like this before in another thread:

I don’t want to get into too much detail about how we’re looking to improve Radio after 1.3, since the plans are fluid and could still change. I can tell you we think an important source will be what we capture about how people are already using Radio. We’re now at a point where we have a critical mass of users generating this data, and 1.3 will contain client-side functionality to help us gather that data before it’s analyzed in the cloud.

[pedalhead (Mark)]

This is getting interesting…

[erich6]

@RBM

I can see the DR rating playing a role in the decision making process before buying an album version. But I can’t see what use it has once the music is in Roon. Maybe I’m dense – but I am interested to know why you do think it has merit.

I agree with you that a DR metric is most useful before buying an album. That said, I found it useful to analyze my existing albums. Sometimes I’ll listen to a track and it sounds off…something wrong. The DR metric helps me understand it’s a compression issue with the track and not something wrong with my setup.

[dabassgoesboomboom]

Great idea. DR is so useful for comparing different versions of the same album. I have 4 versions of Off The Wall but 2 have a shockingly compromised DR that I don’t bother with them. I even use the DR database to decide which version of an album I want to buy.

It’s not everything though of course. Most, if not all, versions of Blue by Joni Mitchell have a low DR (even the vinyl) but that will never stop it being a classic until the end of time lol. So I wouldn’t use it to determine whether to get a particular album - moreso which version of that album.

[dabassgoesboomboom]

The DR database gives Thriller the following values. Jap CD 1st pressing = 15 and 2008 CD remaster = 8

Roon is giving both a score of 5.

It’s quite possible the DR score made me give biased preference to the 1st pressing and made me hate the 2008 remaster. I’m very open to that idea.

Or maybe Roon’s R128 calc is off. Or both are wrong and we should actually listen and not be swayed by values lol.

Or we should have both values shown in Roon. I’m confused but this is fun and interesting lol

[Ronnie]

Choose a Track and look at the Waveform…and repeat the same for the 2008 remaster…take screenshots and post them here if you like

IMHO, it’s best to look at BOTH the Waveform and the R128 value to get an informed opinion…the Waveform will help give a guide to perceived Loudness, while the R128 value will guide towards the Dynamic Range within that relative Loudness

And lastly, the Crest DR should be called a “Guide” rather than what you describe as a “Score”, which sounds more like an “inarguable result”, which IMHO it is not in all cases

[dabassgoesboomboom]

Hi mate, no debates there. I did say in a post above a Dynamic Range value is not everything and gave an example.

Regarding the waveform, this is the first time I’ve seen this in Roon (I had never turned on Audio Analysis until 1.3).

Is there a way to get the waveform in a larger view or is just at the bottom of the screen?

Cheers