I’ve been moderated myself but I think you have to respect the referee here. I believe it’s in good faith and not censorship, things have got a little heated. Reminder to self, free wine and forums don’t mix…
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This is a discussion in the Roon Software board. The product being discussed (roon) is entirely digital, we are discussing the best way to transmit the output of your product (which lives in the digital domain) to another digital source, that will then likely convert to analogue. The point being debated was whether Ethernet is better than AES/TOSLINK for this task. I dont see the issue and no one has become personal.
I don’t see it as censorship, its just a bit heavy handed. Enjoy the wine.
Wine already enjoyed, suspect I’ll feel differently come the morning…
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The very title of this topic contains the words “Sound Quality” without an analog element there is no sound … it cannot just be ignored.
Data Transmission
Under typical conditions ethernet and USB are bit perfect, no question, and when stressed within their design limits they have the ability to detect and correct (by retransmission) any transmission errors.
SPDIF / AES / TOSlink is different in that corruption can be detected (via CRC) but not corrected … though with good interpolation minor “blips” whilst absolutely not desirable are generally not an issue.
Signal timing
Ethernet and asynchronous USB are … well asynchronous … which gives the freedom for the DAC itself to control the flow of bits into the converter.
SPDIF / AES / TOSlink is not, and thus the timing is controlled by the source clock … often (esp. in computer audio) the clock in the source is inferior that that of the DAC.
Electrical / RF Noise
The best DACs protect themself from external noise, so it could be argued that any noise from the digital source is irrelevant … however, no noise rejection system is perfect … so it’s not much of stretch to suggest that different digital transmission protocols and hardware can have an effect on the DAC and hence the sound quality.
Am I sitting on the fence?
No, over the years my preference is to use ethernet to connect the DAC the steamer … but I acknowledge and accept that others may have a different view.
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@Margo_Margo I received your reply before it was moderated. Please understand, I’ll be the judge if my posts have value. Feel free to ignore or mute me.
I look forward to hearing more of your comments and ideas. Welcome to the forums.
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So are you saying that Ethernet has some inherent characteristic that causes noise? Because that’s what this discussion is about, if not, then cool, you agree with me.
IMO, the analogue circuits is irrelevant, because it may not even be implemented in the same device where the phycial ethernet is terminated, and unless there some cause of noise inherent to Ethernet, then there is literally nothing to discuss.
I rest my case, your Honour.
and for an example, there are active speakers with inbuilt dacs that are fed wirelessly by some sort of hub, in these cases the ethernet is terminated at the hub and then retransmitted using wireless bespoke protocols to the speakers where they pass through digital crossovers into DACS. So the point being, has ethernet caused any noise to be injected into the analogue circuits? My contention is that its literally impossible to do so, because the data transmitted via a reliable delivery protocol and it is not at all impacted by the physical media…
Hi @Margo_Margo,
What streaming digital source are you considering or asking about in your opening post? And what DAC do you currently have? Or is it a streaming DAC?
Can you share brands and models.
And what max sample rate do you need support for? And both DSD and PCM support? Or just PCM?
Cheers
Im going to do a full system change, from streamer/dac/amp/speakers to what will likely be a custom built server/nas (running roon) directly into some digital speakers (likely via ethernet 
) that can work as a roon endpoint.
What exact kit i’ll use is still up in the air, but the “architecture” seems to be the “best”…
Great stuff. What speakers are on your shortlist?
Duo B&W, KEF LS50W, Dynaudio’s bookshelf’s (is it x20) and ive seens a couple of pro-monitors that look interesting, but cant for the life of me remember which they were…
I was considering the Allo signature / pi streamer, then it dawned on me that actually, its not required and I can simplify down to barebones with this approach.
I like the idea of the crossover being implemented in digital, and these speakers with DSP offer a lot of options for room correction.
Future of HIFI IMO.
That’s a great list!
I had the passive LS50’s from the time they were released with all sorts of amps (and demo’ed with uber expensive famous amps, well out of my budget too).
To my ears and tastes the LS50W “bettered” (subjectively) any combination I’d heard with passives. It’s hard to describe.
I have a friend who has the LS50W with pair of subwoofers with Dirac Live doing some gentle digital room EQ… sounds great to my ears.
I’m looking forward to demo’ing the Formation Duo’s at some point down the track.
I’ve been left impressed with Beolab 90’s (hoping to win the lotto for those), D&D 8C, Kii3, Devialet Phantom Gold, LS50W, Adam Audio S3V, Barefoot MicroMain 27 monitors, Genelec The Ones and a couple others I can’t remember. All sounded different but left good impressions on me in their different ways.
Yes, they’re the studio monitors I was looking at, found this recently as well
Worth a look maybe, no idea on cost. Dunno if they support Roon - maybe roon want to send their biz dev guy to speak to them…
Pricey when I last checked.
The founder and designer spent a large chunk of his career at Adam Audio before recently going solo (with his son). Really smart chap. There’s a great video interview with him by John Darko.
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I like the look of those Barefoot “MEME” speakers…
I like their looks too but I can appreciate they’re not for everybody.
I’m a sucker for great marketing so when I saw some of my favourite artists sitting in front of them, I had to have a demo 
They sounded great (to my ears). Bruno P was involved in some capacity, in implementing the Hypex amps in the speaker design.
That may have even been before his Kii3’s came out (I may have the timeline wrong though).
Those HEDD’s are not actually that expensive
https://masteringmansion.com/pro-audio/categorias/altavoces-activos/type-20/
You buy the digital card as an add-on. But I dont see any mention that they have their own DAC, but presume they must have if they’re taking a digital signal.
But supposedly have 3x300 watt amps? And is that a ribbon tweeter?
(off to see if I can find a review)
My mistake. It was the TM80 section of the his huge towers (so excluding the modular subs) that was pricey.
Yep Klaus Heinz has been using them forever, since way back in his Adam Audio days.
Here’s the interview where he discusses his tweeter and other things. His discussion on dynamics was interesting I found. Very smart and transparent guy.
This is precisely what I pointed out in my answer to Margo.
“Statements like this introduce confusion, and they are also irrespectful of the many persons that spend a lot of efforts to improve the analog output of a DAC. If it comes from personal experience it is from a pretty limited one, to say the least! ‘*
Any digital audio system ends with an analog stage. One can be expert in digital data transmission and not have a clue about the intricacies of reaching 120 dB+ dynamic range or noise floor in anything analog with a power supply. And as a side remark, it is preposterous to start making definitive statement in a forum, less than one day after joining in.