'M an old fart as well, but I was a pirate radio DJ in the eighties. Building a playlist takes me back to those days. Like making good radio it’s an art. Deciding on a theme, segueing songs, rhythm, building on artist relations, creating atmosphere…
The prefab playlists on Tidal stink. They’re randomly thrown together. Qobuz’s prefab playlists are not much better. Spotify gives access to other users’ playlists. There are some gems to be found there.
Other users playlists! Well said and that’s why Spotify shines on playlists.
Actually when I first started with Tidal, I used my free Spotify account to favorite a dozen of so playlists. I then brought them into Tidal with Soundliz. I remember at the time Tidal only having about an 80% match. I haven’t bothered to bring in anymore playlists since then.
I found several 120 minutes MTV playlists from the late 80’s on there, which was how I found new bands at the time. So looking forward to just having direct access to all these playlists.
Yeah me too. I would make tapes. It would take some considerable thought and time to get the theme and track sequence right. It had to have a reason for being on my tape and a reason for being where I placed it.
Wow… if this really appears, I will be officially finished with both a locally curated music library and “hi-res” music.
I know I can’t hear the difference between Redbook and Hi-Res (and neither can you) and the Spotify Connect architecture is everywhere (literally, even in my car). So, I will be finished “collecting” music and will finally fully give in to the dark side.
Good Luck, Roon…
For playlist fans, I’m trying to get Roon to move the needle.
I’m pretty sure no one can tell the difference between 320 kbps lossy and 16/44.1 lossless while driving in their car†. So the introduction of Spotify lossless doesn’t change anything material there.
On the other hand, you did (up till now) find value in subscribing to Roon in addition to a lossless streaming service (whether Tidal or Qobuz). So it’s not quite clear why that value would be diminished by the introduction of (another) lossless streaming service.
I can see why one might not be willing to pay for all three. But, at least for me, I’d sooner pay the extra $10/mo to listen to Spotify in my car than give up the value that Roon adds to my music experience at home.
† If you’re paying that close attention, you’re a menace to others and should get the &#%$ off the road.
The more options the better.
I am rediscovering Spotify and it is clearly the best streaming service. The recommendations are very good. The library is particularly rich even for classical music. Spotify connect is perfect and rock solid. The current sound quality is good (lyngdorf with room correction). And now a HiFi proposition, no need for HiRes. What more could you wish for in terms of ease of use, quality and discovery possibilities?
Because the lossless services that are supported in Roon have wonky apps. Roon serves as a better interface.
Spotify’s app works fine and does a lot of things much better than Roon such as searching, recommendations (discovery) and autogenerated playlists (radio).
We’ll see how lossless Spotify will turn out. If it turns out good, there’s a good chance I’ll be abandoning Roon.
I’ll be getting a lossless mobile solution with a good interface in the bargain.
It’ll still be a trade off, though the plus side of the balance tips in favour of Spotify for me. Spotify Connect is a default standard. Roon isn’t.
Spotify connect has become a standard and moreover no need for a complicated and sometimes unstable infrastructure. Simpler and more efficient.
This thread appears to have become an overspill for the “I’m not that keen on Roon” threads!
Spotify and Roon are different animals. If all you want is a streaming service then that’s great.
If you want an integrated solution that allows you to create a customised local library out of both streaming services and local files, then Spotify won’t do.
If you want to use multiple endpoints working from the same central source, incorporating DSP, then Spotify won’t do.
I’ve no problem at all with Spotify. If it’s right for individual users then it’s a perfectly good option. Personally I use Roon for more than a streaming endpoint. If that’s all that somebody wants, I wonder why they’re using Roon in the first place?
You are right. Spotify Hifi will certainly cause a reassessment of the needs, compared to real use.
Another plus for Spotify is that I can use the same interface at home or away. Been waiting years for roon to build a mobile solution. When I was working at the office, I wasn’t a fan of having to switch back to Qobuz mobile app. It’s way behind roon’s interface and Spotify.
Yes, there many things roon offers that Spotify doesn’t. But for most part I’d be able to send Spotify to multiple endpoints through the house, use in the car, and at work. I don’t use DSP, so no loss there. So far, only see loss of album reviews and star ratings as the things I d miss from roon. For most part, my entire local library is already on Spotify. I’m sure there’s a few missing and could always fire up roon to play them again.
In my case because I want lossless streaming to endpoints of my choice. The streaming services that offer lossless streaming don’t provide apps that allow this. Roon makes this possible for Tidal and Qobuz with a somewhat functional interface.
Spotify provides everything I really want, except for the SQ.
Use cases are different and for some of us (maybe more than you might think) Roon is the only somewhat acceptable solution to a problem. Admittedly a first world problem.
I don’t care about streaming local stuff. Most every thing I’ve ripped from my CD’s and vinyl is available from streaming services. The really special stuff is all on vinyl anyway and for critical listening it still goes on the turntable. The really special obscure stuff on CD, I stick in the CD player because streaming still doesn’t top my CD player soundwise.
And I’m not that bothered about hi res. In many cases the original redbook master is superior and I honestly can’t tell the difference soundwise. When I do hear a better hi res version, it’s probably the mastering that’s superior, not the resolution. This is a personal opinion. I’m not asserting that hi res is inferior to redbook or something in that vein. I’m not opening that can of worms.
Call it what you will: if Spotify lossless does hit the market, it’s going to be a game changer for Roon and the smaller streaming providers alike.
One big downside of Spotify in house playlists is the increasing use of fake artists they contract pay to create lame songs. I don’t have a sure fire way to recognize them but you can tell if they are all average generic names. This happens a lot in Chill, piano, Sleep, relax oriented Spotify playlists
I have no trouble (losslessly) streaming Qobuz to all of my endpoints via UPnP/OpenHome (using Linn Kazoo as a controller). Volumio and moOde (to name a few) also offer Qobuz streaming via their own interfaces.
I agree that Roon offers a much-superior interface. That’s why I subscribed.
Before I used Roon I had a number of Raspberry Pi’s that were set up as UPnP renderers. They could receive Tidal and Qobuz via a 3rd party app (Bubble UPnP in my case).
The ability to stream lossless audio to multiple endpoints already exists. Roon makes things tidier and more effective, but it’s not necessary for what you describe.
I don’t deny that, but I still question why people are paying for Roon if solutions already exist that don’t require additional costs. If I didn’t need/want DSP and didn’t enjoy fiddling with metadata, I wouldn’t be paying for Roon. I’d go back to Bubble UPnP and Moode Audio, or use any UPnP capable streaming device.
Honestly, at first I was drawn in by Roon’s advertising. The real experience falls very short of the advertising. It did 3 years ago and it still does.
What Roon does well though is provide a stable environment of server, endpoints and remote control. Much less fuss than all other solutions out there. So that in itself is worth the money. For me, that is. For now.
Spotify offers a turnkey solution (well almost, but it’s ridiculously easy to configure a raspi as a Spotify Connect endpoint), does away with the need for a separate box running a server AND does the whole search/playlist/radio/playback ensemble better than Roon IMO.
Just waiting for the SQ. Then I’ll put it to the test.
As I said before: use cases vary.
Oh yes: the only DSP I use is volume levelling. I’ve got a remote for my amp so I can do without, but I’m lazy.
So if you told me: “for $30 a month you can have the entire Spotify catalog in hires FLAC with masters and bit depth that rival Qobuz, but Tidal and Qobuz are going to continue to exist and be Roon integrated”, then I’d probably continue doing what I do now… lifetime Roon, BestBuy annual Tidal, Annual Qobuz, Spotify family for everyone else to use. And I would wager that a significant number of Roonheads would do the same.
Why? Because Roon provides me a very valuable service (that, admittedly, I’ve already paid for so it’s sunk cost, but I think I would do the same if I was annual on Roon). It’s how I find music I love and how I explore connections. The interface is designed for discovery in a number of dimensions, and allows me to wander and learn in a catalog that is not constrained by what I own but centered on it while I listen.
Would I make some compromises in order to get Spotify integrated into Roon? Well, the value of the Spotify data to Roon’s algorithms would be phenomenal. Sure if I was king, Spotify would offer Roon a big check, Roon would accept, Spotify would integrate into Roon, invest in it, and share data for all the overlapping or related things they do. They would sell Roon as an upgraded audiophile service to all their subscribers, and instantly make the service worth a metric gajillion tons more. And they’d let other music services like Tidal/Qobuz/bandcamp on if they wanted to be - in order to understand people’s listening habits even more broadly. And they would build a cloud version, and they would make it all mobile. No more core, or at least a core-less version.
But here’s the issue with that fantasy - as @danny has pointed out, they like their lives. If they bought it, they’d make it a product for a much larger target audience than Roon’s and so in a year or 2 or 3, it would almost certainly be diluted. The independence of vision these guys have is the most valuable bulwark against this becoming a purely commercial least common denominator piece of dreck. They like their lives and based on current trends I think they can continue to build it as a niche product.
However, I do want to be clear that Spotify hi-res, which could easily be coming next after Spotify redbook, could and likely should crush Tidal /Qobuz. There’s just no reason for multiple providers of the same cloud service - unless they do something unique. And then, well not everyone is like me, if the other hi-res streamers went out of biz, some people will drop Roon. And then you have a bad spiral. And I’m sure team Roon is totally aware of this, and knows for which portion of their user base / recurring revenue streaming is the primary usage. And that is a rough spot to be in, because then you are negotiating from a position of weakness and it’s not clear your product is viable of the back of just local file listeners - I don’t know how quickly they are being created.
So my wishful thinking is on record…