Spotify announce lossless streaming

I am rediscovering Spotify and it is clearly the best streaming service. The recommendations are very good. The library is particularly rich even for classical music. Spotify connect is perfect and rock solid. The current sound quality is good (lyngdorf with room correction). And now a HiFi proposition, no need for HiRes. What more could you wish for in terms of ease of use, quality and discovery possibilities?

4 Likes

Because the lossless services that are supported in Roon have wonky apps. Roon serves as a better interface.

Spotifyā€™s app works fine and does a lot of things much better than Roon such as searching, recommendations (discovery) and autogenerated playlists (radio).

Weā€™ll see how lossless Spotify will turn out. If it turns out good, thereā€™s a good chance Iā€™ll be abandoning Roon.

Iā€™ll be getting a lossless mobile solution with a good interface in the bargain.

Itā€™ll still be a trade off, though the plus side of the balance tips in favour of Spotify for me. Spotify Connect is a default standard. Roon isnā€™t.

1 Like

Spotify connect has become a standard and moreover no need for a complicated and sometimes unstable infrastructure. Simpler and more efficient.

1 Like

This thread appears to have become an overspill for the ā€œIā€™m not that keen on Roonā€ threads!

Spotify and Roon are different animals. If all you want is a streaming service then thatā€™s great.

If you want an integrated solution that allows you to create a customised local library out of both streaming services and local files, then Spotify wonā€™t do.

If you want to use multiple endpoints working from the same central source, incorporating DSP, then Spotify wonā€™t do.

Iā€™ve no problem at all with Spotify. If itā€™s right for individual users then itā€™s a perfectly good option. Personally I use Roon for more than a streaming endpoint. If thatā€™s all that somebody wants, I wonder why theyā€™re using Roon in the first place?

6 Likes

You are right. Spotify Hifi will certainly cause a reassessment of the needs, compared to real use.

Another plus for Spotify is that I can use the same interface at home or away. Been waiting years for roon to build a mobile solution. When I was working at the office, I wasnā€™t a fan of having to switch back to Qobuz mobile app. Itā€™s way behind roonā€™s interface and Spotify.

Yes, there many things roon offers that Spotify doesnā€™t. But for most part Iā€™d be able to send Spotify to multiple endpoints through the house, use in the car, and at work. I donā€™t use DSP, so no loss there. So far, only see loss of album reviews and star ratings as the things I d miss from roon. For most part, my entire local library is already on Spotify. Iā€™m sure thereā€™s a few missing and could always fire up roon to play them again.

In my case because I want lossless streaming to endpoints of my choice. The streaming services that offer lossless streaming donā€™t provide apps that allow this. Roon makes this possible for Tidal and Qobuz with a somewhat functional interface.

Spotify provides everything I really want, except for the SQ.

Use cases are different and for some of us (maybe more than you might think) Roon is the only somewhat acceptable solution to a problem. Admittedly a first world problem.

I donā€™t care about streaming local stuff. Most every thing Iā€™ve ripped from my CDā€™s and vinyl is available from streaming services. The really special stuff is all on vinyl anyway and for critical listening it still goes on the turntable. The really special obscure stuff on CD, I stick in the CD player because streaming still doesnā€™t top my CD player soundwise.

And Iā€™m not that bothered about hi res. In many cases the original redbook master is superior and I honestly canā€™t tell the difference soundwise. When I do hear a better hi res version, itā€™s probably the mastering thatā€™s superior, not the resolution. This is a personal opinion. Iā€™m not asserting that hi res is inferior to redbook or something in that vein. Iā€™m not opening that can of worms.

Call it what you will: if Spotify lossless does hit the market, itā€™s going to be a game changer for Roon and the smaller streaming providers alike.

2 Likes

One big downside of Spotify in house playlists is the increasing use of fake artists they contract pay to create lame songs. I donā€™t have a sure fire way to recognize them but you can tell if they are all average generic names. This happens a lot in Chill, piano, Sleep, relax oriented Spotify playlists

I have no trouble (losslessly) streaming Qobuz to all of my endpoints via UPnP/OpenHome (using Linn Kazoo as a controller). Volumio and moOde (to name a few) also offer Qobuz streaming via their own interfaces.

I agree that Roon offers a much-superior interface. Thatā€™s why I subscribed.

1 Like

Before I used Roon I had a number of Raspberry Piā€™s that were set up as UPnP renderers. They could receive Tidal and Qobuz via a 3rd party app (Bubble UPnP in my case).

The ability to stream lossless audio to multiple endpoints already exists. Roon makes things tidier and more effective, but itā€™s not necessary for what you describe.

I donā€™t deny that, but I still question why people are paying for Roon if solutions already exist that donā€™t require additional costs. If I didnā€™t need/want DSP and didnā€™t enjoy fiddling with metadata, I wouldnā€™t be paying for Roon. Iā€™d go back to Bubble UPnP and Moode Audio, or use any UPnP capable streaming device.

Honestly, at first I was drawn in by Roonā€™s advertising. The real experience falls very short of the advertising. It did 3 years ago and it still does.

What Roon does well though is provide a stable environment of server, endpoints and remote control. Much less fuss than all other solutions out there. So that in itself is worth the money. For me, that is. For now.

Spotify offers a turnkey solution (well almost, but itā€™s ridiculously easy to configure a raspi as a Spotify Connect endpoint), does away with the need for a separate box running a server AND does the whole search/playlist/radio/playback ensemble better than Roon IMO.

Just waiting for the SQ. Then Iā€™ll put it to the test.

As I said before: use cases vary.

Oh yes: the only DSP I use is volume levelling. Iā€™ve got a remote for my amp so I can do without, but Iā€™m lazy.

So if you told me: ā€œfor $30 a month you can have the entire Spotify catalog in hires FLAC with masters and bit depth that rival Qobuz, but Tidal and Qobuz are going to continue to exist and be Roon integratedā€, then Iā€™d probably continue doing what I do nowā€¦ lifetime Roon, BestBuy annual Tidal, Annual Qobuz, Spotify family for everyone else to use. And I would wager that a significant number of Roonheads would do the same.

Why? Because Roon provides me a very valuable service (that, admittedly, Iā€™ve already paid for so itā€™s sunk cost, but I think I would do the same if I was annual on Roon). Itā€™s how I find music I love and how I explore connections. The interface is designed for discovery in a number of dimensions, and allows me to wander and learn in a catalog that is not constrained by what I own but centered on it while I listen.

Would I make some compromises in order to get Spotify integrated into Roon? Well, the value of the Spotify data to Roonā€™s algorithms would be phenomenal. Sure if I was king, Spotify would offer Roon a big check, Roon would accept, Spotify would integrate into Roon, invest in it, and share data for all the overlapping or related things they do. They would sell Roon as an upgraded audiophile service to all their subscribers, and instantly make the service worth a metric gajillion tons more. And theyā€™d let other music services like Tidal/Qobuz/bandcamp on if they wanted to be - in order to understand peopleā€™s listening habits even more broadly. And they would build a cloud version, and they would make it all mobile. No more core, or at least a core-less version.

But hereā€™s the issue with that fantasy - as @danny has pointed out, they like their lives. If they bought it, theyā€™d make it a product for a much larger target audience than Roonā€™s and so in a year or 2 or 3, it would almost certainly be diluted. The independence of vision these guys have is the most valuable bulwark against this becoming a purely commercial least common denominator piece of dreck. They like their lives and based on current trends I think they can continue to build it as a niche product.

However, I do want to be clear that Spotify hi-res, which could easily be coming next after Spotify redbook, could and likely should crush Tidal /Qobuz. Thereā€™s just no reason for multiple providers of the same cloud service - unless they do something unique. And then, well not everyone is like me, if the other hi-res streamers went out of biz, some people will drop Roon. And then you have a bad spiral. And Iā€™m sure team Roon is totally aware of this, and knows for which portion of their user base / recurring revenue streaming is the primary usage. And that is a rough spot to be in, because then you are negotiating from a position of weakness and itā€™s not clear your product is viable of the back of just local file listeners - I donā€™t know how quickly they are being created.

So my wishful thinking is on recordā€¦

7 Likes

It seems to me that Amazon , Apple and Spotify will be the last ones standing in the end , which may come sooner than you think .

It is already rumored that Apple is bringing lossless streaming to their music service .

So where would that leave Roon ? Yeah with no music service . What would Roonā€™s value be then ?

If Apple and Spotify are out of Roon as it appears , the only one left would be Amazon as a possibility.

I never listen to a whole album.

In fact I almost never add a whole album to my library. I listen and only add what cuts I like.

I love all mechanisms for discovering new music in all the Services I have.

Tidal: Has significantly improved Mixes for You, Radio Stations based on an artist or song. They also do a much better job of pushing new albums and songs that match my tastes especially as I have a larger and larger ā€˜collectionā€™

Qobuz: Has a much weaker and less robust mechanisms for personalized suggestions. But they do have some interesting playlists.

Apple Music: I really only use mobile when stability is important due to connectivity. They do however have a bigger catalogue and I do find new music on their large selection of playlists, a significant number of which update weekly with new cuts that fit the playlist concept. They also have increased Mixes "made for meā€™ and a personalized radio feed based on my ā€˜libraryā€™

Simply put: playlists. The playlists I listen to daily are on Spotify. Nothing else is even close to the quality of user and artist curated playlists on Spotify.

2 Likes

Amazon Music does not even offer an API. There are some Alexa Skills, but thatā€™s it. So thatā€™s not even on the table.

If Spotify had licensed AAC, we would be good to go. Unfortunately, Spotify went with Ogg to save bandwidth and to avoid any licensing fees.

When I plug in a USB stick with the same tracks I am listening to on Spotify Connect (direct streaming to the vehicleā€™s app, not using a Bluetooth connection from my phone), but in 44.1/16-bit FLAC, my vehicleā€™s audio system presents a significant uptick in audio quality - itā€™s not subtle.

If Spotify starts streaming Redbook audio to my car, phone, Sonos components in my houseā€¦ itā€™s game over for me.

1 Like

Out of curiosity, do you know what bitrate Spotify Connect is operating at in your car? The default (IIUC) is 160 kbps. And, yeah, 160kbps Ogg does not sound too goodā€¦

Very interesting opinions on what spotify going to cd quality means for us as individuals and the market place.

I do agree with the author who said if spotify goes to hi rez after they implement cd quality, its game over for tidal, qubuz and deezer.

This subject is on every audio forum I visit, and Iā€™m sure on the ones you visit also. What I didnā€™t realize is how popular spotify is. It seems to get knocked down in our tiny niche market. But, it seems like everyone else not self identifying as an audiophile, uses or at least knows about spotify. The brand recognition seems to be thru the roof.

Another angle, I need to make sure going forward that all my zones have spotify support. Right now my lumin and Google chromecast all work with the free spotify account. My bluesound only works with a paid spotify account.