As will a streamer, or are they all the same?
They’re all the same. My streamers are Pi machines with 7" LCDs and cases. Less than $150 each.
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I can’t remember, so I’ll re-read the (Darko) review and come back to you. I’ll certainly be doing it with the forthcoming review.
On a philosophical note, scientific truths are only absolutes until they’re proved otherwise. Such as when science didn’t understand how a humming bird could fly as it didn’t conform to the then current view on aeronautics. Ditto this article on Dark Energy, which could fundamentally change how we view the origins of the universe.
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First, scientific truths are not absolute. Then, whoever doubts those truths has the burden of proving them wrong. And, in doing so, one has to go through the same rigorous scientific processes that established those truths in the first place. Subjective impressions are obviously irrelevant.
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Try it with a better power supply, you’ll hear a difference!
Said on the back of extensive experience with low cost streamers (and some dear ones too). I’ve had numerous Pi based ones (lots of Allos for a start). And all the current crop of WiiM streamers. I haven’t listened critically to the WiiM Ultra yet, the others all sound the same from their digital outputs. From their analogue outputs the Pro and Pro+ sound better than the Mini (despite all being bit perfect). Oh and they all benefit from a better 5V power supply too, even with their digital outputs.
On a side note the Allo Katana DAC had options on the op-amp board. One measured better, the other sounded better, you got to choose (I reviewed both). Both bit perfect…
At the other extreme I’ve had the DCS Bridge in for review, comparing it to the Moon Mind 2 streamer. They sounded similar to each other but tons better than lower cost options. I currently use a Project Stream Box S2 Ultra that comfortably bests the WiiMs and Allo options. Despite itself being based on the CM3 platform - in other words it’s a Pi at heart (with much attention paid to its internal power supplies).
So, my exprience is that they don’t sound all the same.
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Let’s not bring PSU fallacies into a discussion about streaming. It goes without saying that everything else should be equal in the analog part of the playback chain, starting with the DAC.
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You discredit yourself and should hang your head in shame for mentioning Jeremy Clarkson, dark matter and then worse still, power supplies.
Good god man, what were you thinking about.
Not one of these will improve streaming music.
I’m open to conversation about hires vinyl
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That’s more like it 
Maybe we could all agree on one thing that generally improves sound quality.
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I love discussions with die hard audiophiles. I say “all streamers sound the same”, meaning the sound produced from a DAC fed from two different streamers will be exactly the same, and the audiophile responds with “it’s about the power supply”. News flash: power supplies in streamers have no effect on the digital output of the streamer and cannot be heard by any living human, something which can be easily proved.
Oh wait, I don’t have an audio system that costs more than 100 acre estate so what do I know?
When having these “discussions” one spends more time dismissing all the red herrings that audiophiles are so fond of tossing out that nothing ever gets resolved. I pretty much take it is a sign that someone is losing an argument as sonn as that person starts tossing out those red herrings. Audiophiles tend to go the red herrings within the first few sentences. Pointless nonsense.
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Just think about all the PSUs involved in streaming, powering datacenter storage and compute racks, routers, switches etc. The horror! I’m actually amazed that some CD transports sound worse.
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At last another thread where the bits are bits posters can gather and pontificate.
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I sense we may not agree on this point
Have a read of these words from John Westlake, designer of my Pro-ject streamer in which he explains the design choices. Including focussing on the power supplies because they directly influence jitter. My ears tell me they make a difference, even when that’s counterintuitive (which I agree it is).
Also rest assured I don’t even see myself as an audiophile, let alone a die hard one. It’s the music that matters, nothing else. And like you I’ve been listening to jazz since the 70’s, so maybe we agree on some things (does Keith Jarrett’s ‘singing’ annoy you too, genius pianist that he is).
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Totally agree. The same is true of mains cables - why would an expensive cable carrying eletricity that last yard or two make a difference given everything that has gone before. Actually on that one I found they do make a small difference but not one I could get excited about. And boy was that time spent on four reviews that I’ll never get back!
By the way, I’m not trying to wind anyone up here, life’s too short for that. If we disagree then fine.
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I guess that makes this thread a buffer zone? Or a cache of conflict?
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Agreed, there were some people right from the start who polemicized against CD. But if I recall it correctly, the majority of hi-fi dealers and manufacturers did not really take part in that for most of the 1980s and 1990s, as they rather preferred to sell CD players first. I remember it becoming a mass movement when DVD was introduced.
I think that is a quintessential comment explaining why so many of the younger folks are turning their backs on hi-fi as a hobby and on the high end priests as well. They all seemingly prefer to listen to music and not to differences!
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I find that a linear power supply almost makes Jarrett’s goat wails tolerable. Also, for some reason Jarrett’s wailing sounds worse on digital than on analog. However the wailing can be somewhat tamed with the proper VTA. 
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I find the mute button works extremely well in this case scenario 
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I think you are:
I agree life is indeed too short for the kind of experiments you’re proposing. I already know senses are unreliable and bias is real. Analyzers on the other hand are not, and I’ve done my measurements.
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Okay? Ha ha
It’s really simple to figure out. Everyone with a CD player and everyone with a streamer have - in the end - different DAC’s. Then we look down the quality road. A streamer that is from Amazon for $50 and using the built-in DAC will likely sound poor when compared to a Best Buy $200 CD player. Then there is the rest of the audio chain, preamp, amp, cables and speakers.
The analogy I like to use is this: There is a large symphony that is missing their lead violinist. They grab you off the street and hand you a violin. Now, will the symphony sound wonderful or will it reveal the weak player and be a poor performance? It’s the same with audio equipment. One weak link and the whole systems suffers. You need a synergy between what everything that you’ve purchased. It doesn’t mean you need to spend thousands, but the equipment must complement each other.
If you want to “bash” anyone, try this: Use an Esoteric DAC with an Esoteric Master Clock. Then get a CD transport and a high quality (aka expensive no doubt) streamer, but the catch is they must have master clock inputs. Everything must be controlled by a master clock.
Now, I can tell you first hand that this setup will be the start of amazing, better than analog sound. I have those Esoteric pieces, a HiFi Rose 130 and fiber networked and an Esoteric SACD/CD player. It’s expensive and it’s taken 51 years to get to this point, ‘cause I was born in a lower/middle class family.
I have a turntable (VPI Signature 21 in Roswood w/ DS Audio 003 Cartridge) and it can and does give digital media a run for its money. There are so many variables, starting with the quality of the recording all the way through to the final recording that you stream, or hold in your hand (i.e. CD or vinyl).
Until we know what these people own for equipment, their opinions are moot. It takes quality equipment to bring out the best of the recording and a great recording to bring out the best of the equipment.
Botton line: If you find yourself tapping your foot, singing or whatever you do when music moves you, you are enjoying music however it is being delivered. That’s what really counts, the enjoyment you receive from music.
Done and dusted!
Cheers all and stay well.
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