It not physical media vs streaming. It is “what is being streamed.” I’ll give you an example, Snarky Puppy Live at the Royal Albert Hall. This recording is to die for. The Puppies had “swing” that night. Everything jelled. And the tracking, mix, and master are superb. The CD has an amazing sense of space not equaled by the quite good QobuzUSA stream.
So what’s different? Likely, Qobuz did its own mastering with somewhat different level and equalization, just enough so that they lost a noticeable amount of the superbly lush and liquid sound of the Puppies CD. The sense of depth is amazing.
If you find yourself liking the CD better than what your streaming service is delivering, likely the streaming service is at fault. In a world where multiple master versions are floating around from reissues and for mono and stereo LPs, cassettes, 8-Tracks, AM radio mix, FM radio mix, etc the provenance of a copy at a streaming service can be uncertain. What did they start with? Did a producer at the label make a new studio master for a particular service? What did he start with?
Today, the mastering engineer makes media masters for each track for each playback format. Some have robots do this. Others have real people like Robert Ludlum do the mastering. It makes a difference. Increasingly, the mastering engineer makes a master for each streaming service following its specifications.
What happens to the track master in the hands of the streaming service is up to the streaming service. They may make multiple re-masters for delivery in different network congestion, service load environments, and market segments.
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
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Of course that wasn’t what the comment I was replying to said… But come on! Crawl out from under that persecution complex and enjoy the party! It’s wonderful that one can experience the soothing ritual of physical token manipulation without sacrificing the sonic benefits of digital sources!
Ah yes…that old chestnut. Believe it or not some people do have the ability to listen critically without bias despite having made the effort to remove a CD from its case.
That may be true, but what is highly dubious is one’s ability to evaluate their own abilities, so the whole point is moot. From a strictly scientific point of view, the only way to remove bias is to use blind tests.
I’m surprised that you think Qobuz does any mastering on their own. Why would they? Why would the people that own the rights to the music allow them to do that? Do you have any links or information you could provide to show that’s what actually happens?
Ha me the persecutor? I never made any claim other than to say that is what I am hearing in my system. I never made a claim of what is best just what sounds best to me. It’s crazy how threatening this is to others. I was in a very friendly way asking to discuss why I might be hearing my streaming not as good as CD transport playback. Read my first post and tell my why feathers got so ruffled.
Sorry, it’s not an old chestnut. It’s science. I’d say it is impossible to control for all biases without a double blind (or at least good single blind) test. Saying someone has a bias in listening doesn’t imply that the person is a liar, or doesn’t have the brainpower to evaluate something. But because our brains and senses are quite complex, it is essentially impossible to remove all sources of potential bias. We are human beings, not robots. Science has some well developed tools for making comparisons that remove most bias, including double blind tests. And forget about music for a moment. Without double blind tests, we wouldn’t have most of the pharmaceuticals we currently benefit from.
He’s not saying you are a persecutor. He’s saying you are suffering from a persecution complex (you feel like you’re being persecuted, when maybe you’re not)
edit: And I’m not making any judgments regarding persecution for anyone in this thread. Just correcting the specific point of his comment.
I once had an opposite experience - streaming sounded better to me. Then one day I found out that Roon streams local DSD files at -6dB lower. This will no doubt makes hear a poorer sound. So before comparing anything, we must make sure we are comparing apple for apple.
I’ve also watched a YouTube saying ripped file sounds better than CD. I reckon this could happen because ripping software may come with some error correction function.
I certainly believe in confirmation bias, but I wish it always worked in one’s favor. For instance, I want to use RAAT via Ethernet or wifi from my Nucleus+ into my DAC, but the USB input sounds better to me…but I don’t WANT it to sound better.
I want all of my MFSL SACDs to sound superior to my redbook CDs because they are supposed to and cost a lot of money…but they sometimes don’t.
I want to not use speaker grilles because grilles suck and they are voiced without them by the manufacturer…but they sound better with the grilles on.
Sorry, science and the scientific method is not an old chestnut. I’ve made an excellent living for 35 years doing science and publishing refereed papers in scholarly journals (not audio related). My peers would find the unwillingness of audiophiles to rigorously test their propositions laughable. But its just a hobby and we’re not trying to cure cancer…just listening to music…so it doesn’t really matter.
Will that actually change your enjoyment of the music? Because even if you should be right I don’t see how audiophile listening skills will actually help me appreciate the music more (assuming that you have a decent set-up). Now, I’m into classical music, and wouldn’t it help more to learn about fugue types, the sonata form, counterpoint …?
Cute question. Answer: Probably not. The point is that if one does actually practice one can learn to trust your ears and get past the maddening doubts that send us to the opposite ends of the objectivist/subjectivist spectrum This all started years ago as a bet…that I won. I find that being able to trust one’s ears a valuable asset as a sound engineer. It’s not easy, it’s not particularly intuitive and not everyone can do it…and that’s OK.
This whole issue is so full of ‘confounding variables’ that there is no definitive. And there never will be. It will depend so much on your source(s), files, cables etc, and so many other variables that make your system what it is.
For me personally, my SACD player is far-and-away my best sounding source. But for others it may be different.
Without a sense of humor, I’d never be able to read audio forums. I’m pleased to hear your group is doing blind testing. That’s great, and all I was commenting on originally. You’re already doing what I was recommending as a good test (blind testing). So we’re in agreement on that.
