It’s not a rating system. It’s a way to go through what the Radio is going to play and skip songs you don’t care to listen too. Thumbs up to play it and thumbs down to skip it. It builds a queue in the process.
You seem to want a rating system. To what end? If you select “Thumbs down” do you never want to hear that song again?
@Speed_Racer My point exactly. In most cases you don’t know what the next song is based off the name.
In all cases where I’ve seen this feature implemented, you’re actually giving the thumbs up/down to the current playing track. If you select thumbs down then the track is skipped and moved onto the next one.
Personally, I much prefer the system as it is. I use it to build up a queue rapidly in advance of a listening session. Having to wait until a track starts playing before I can decide whether I want to listen to it would mean that I’m constantly having to interrupt what I’m doing and decide whether I want that track or not at that moment. It is supposed to be a “radio” playing in the background, after all…
Perhaps I’m lucky in having a small library of 25,000 tracks, and generally speaking I know what the tracks are, or can make an educated guess on whether I want it in the queue or not.
By all means, request your change in behaviour, but I would hope that if the Roon team implement it, it becomes an additional option, rather than a replacement for the existing behaviour.
@Geoff_Coupe, thanks for your input. Makes sense for small libraries. Mine is quite large and I’ve got a poor memory! Half the time a track is played and I don’t even know who it is.
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
This is why I was concerned about the change in behavior that wasn’t documented. Apparently thumbs down does affect suggested tracks during the reamainder of the session. I was just thumbs downing songs I wasn’t in the mood for, but I would want it to have no other effect. Rating system should be separate. Because yes, I would want to hear that song again unless I rated it as a poor song. Queue building is not an indication of track rating, or should not be.
I don’t think I have a problem with the “Thumbs Down” button causing a track to not be played for the remainder of that Radio session, however long it is. Otherwise, that track could keep popping up and that would be irritating!
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
True! I would just not want it to reduce the suggestions for that artist or album etc.
It’s really hard for us to distinguish between “this song doesn’t fit my current mood” and “I don’t like this song in general” – as mentioned, not wanting a song right now doesn’t necessarily mean you never want to hear it. Right now, Thumbs Down means “play less like this in the current session” – if you like or dislike the song generally, you can use the Favorite or Ban feature
A key use case for this feature is the “pre-approve” case. Say you’re going to have a dinner party – while I trust the Radio algorithm to pick good stuff (naturally), by using the Thumbs I can quickly generate a 4 hour playlist of jazz that I’ve approved in advance. I also use this to pick a couple songs before I hop in the shower… what, you guys don’t have a zone in your bathroom?
None of this is to say that the request isn’t valid – just giving some perspective on the design goals. Thanks for the feedback @hedkase!
I’m new to Roon and I totally recognise the confusion. If not recognising the track nor the artist by name, how could one possibly give a thumbs up or down?
I mostly felt it was a missed opportunity.
It’s of course always debatable as to what extent the ban is implemented. The way I could see this works is
Thumbs up, then all is good. Carry on and suggest similar tracks.
Thumbs down, then answering the same three questions stating the reason i.e. it doesn’t fit right now etc.
Furthermore, it would be great leaving the “thumbs up or ban” window open until 50% or so of the track has played
Thumbs up/down have been informally standardized as affecting the algorithm following extensive use by Pandora and the like. Even though I know the radio thumbs don’t affect anything other than the current playlist, I still hesitate due to longer term conditioning. Perhaps thumbs should continue to be used for the current track and radio should use something like Play/Skip, for upcoming track. IMO, that would be clearer.
My understanding is that the thumbs up/down for the upcoming track doesn’t affect the algorithm. Thumbs for the currently playing track will. See, confusing! Unless I’m wrong, in which case just me being confused.
Ok, now I have to join the chorus that it doesn’t make sense to affect the algorithm when skipping tracks I haven’t heard yet! I wouldn’t want to use the thumbs for upcoming when trying to assemble a playlist. If that pop-up comes every time I skip, it would get cumbersome. I don’t always see the pop-up which adds to the confusion. I think it may be that I am not getting it when I skip Qobuz tracks. Not sure, I’ll have to experiment.
Pretty sure i posted the same sentiment as OP somewhere here. Want to back it fully. I’ve never used the thumbs up/down in Roon’s implementation (i.e. for the next track) but always used it in Spotify when it was for the current track. Bit of a missed tool as currently implemented in Roon.