But, but, those blacker blacks
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Does that mean you have them? I donātā¦yet.
Thanks AE67 ! I think that may be the best and most diplomatic response Iāve seen on this recurring digital cable discussion. Very well statedā¦
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Dumb analogy - when was the last time you listened to a print or a page of text? USB cables may or may not make a difference to sound quality, but you canāt take the ears and the sense of hearing (and its differences from sight) out of the equation to make a point.
Itās not a dumb analogy, people just donāt understand how data works. Usb is just data. Itās exactly the same as a photograph, all that goes across it is information. If a usb cable canāt change a printed photo, it canāt change sound.
I still donāt understood why audiophiles in particular struggle with this neurosis. A usb cable attached to a hard disc (like my roon server), endlessly transmits gigabytes per day without a single lost bit of data.
Why do you think what passes between a transport and a dac is any different. It simply isnāt.
There is absolutely no technical reason for a usb cable to have any audible properties
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There actually is, not by altering data, but in some unique situation by creating a ground loop or introducing interference via a potential difference and/or poor equipment grounding. This can affect audio stages, and be audible as say low level hum. Therefore, Roon suggest separating Core and Endpoint by ethernet, which is galvanically isolated.
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This is what can happen when you introduce interference to a picture:
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This is neurotic nonsense. If the receiving DAC canāt deal with inbound noise over usb then it isnāt fit for purpose!
What about the earthing via your rca cables? Mains cables?
Of all the wires to worry about in the system, usb should be the least of any concerns, and thereās no guarantee that some āaudiophileā cable will
Actually improve on this situation.
Not sure why people are so obsessed with inaudible noise
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Thatās not noise, itās moire caused by a mismatch of image complexity vs the resolution of the capture / display device. Itās not caused by a cable and never will be. Nor will any other visible noise on a picture.
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Okay, perhaps it is 
ā¦ personally, Iād still use ethernet between core and endpoint though.
Correct. But itās still a form of interference, and illustrates the point.
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If you were using it to illustrate how bad upsampling worked and that not doing a perfect āfactor of twoā upsampling can cause problems, then yes, it would be a perfect example.
But youāre trying to use it as a suggestion of cable induced noise in an image, which this isnāt, and never would be. Itās an incredibly poor example of what youāre trying to suggest.
The kind of thing youāre talking about is like chroma error and shadowing on old composite video cables back in the 90ās. But since the move to HDMI, this is a complete non issue, much as is the case with usb and digital audio.
It would probably be best to understand the technologies before trying to explain them to others.
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Thanks for the outstanding advise 
(crawls back under rockā¦)
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Hi Steven, I am also at the micro-end of improvements (all but done and more than happy with SQ.)
Have spent $150+ on a USB cable and $5 on a very short USB 2.0 cable = No differance in SQ IMHO. If there was it was a very micro differance I could not define/hear. Given the cost of my digital end I expect good digital implementation (BTW IMHO Chord nail power supply issues onto the digital interface)
Maybe buy on approval! and blind test as best you can.
I buy cables based on their flexibility and how they look in my rack.
As long as theyāre up to spec then cables are just jewelry and should be assessed that way.
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Serious question, not a trollā¦
so, thereās certainly been the move to I2S vs USB in the audio worldā¦ HDMI cable. Digital.
Would you also argue thereās no measurable difference between HDMI cables? Once you reach the āstandardā (whatever that is), youāre foolish to try to move beyond it with an expensive HDMI cable?
(Obviously, some SWEAR by insanely priced HDMI cables.)
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interestingly (yet not surprisingly), a similar USB-cable discussion is going on over at another forum. One response here had a sensible argument in favor of better-quality USB cables:
A USB cable is not just a data connection between the computer and DAC. A USB cable also carries power and is also an electrical ground connection between the computer and DAC.
A USB hard drive connected to a computer where youāre transferring a file doesnāt care about the effects of the ground connection and power connections. But a highly resolving DAC connected by USB can be affected by electrical ground and electrical power issues through the USB cable. The 1ās and 0ās may be the same but the electrical connection caused by the USB cable can still affect the jitter and electrical noise transmitted to the DAC. So the idea that a USB cable cannot affect the audio is not true. Whether that is audible is up for debate, but there are measurements that show that the electrical noise the USB cable transmits to the DAC can affect the DAC.
One such test is here: USB cable shield resistance technical measurements
Where different USB cables were measured for what happens if you physically disturb them by squeezing them, or hitting them. And it turns out that while the bits delivered may be the same the electrical and other effects connected to the DAC can be affected by physical and other means. The better cables are more resistant to that than lesser USB cables.
How they look is a great reason to buy better cables, but that neednāt cost much. In my old house the hifi was on top of a sideboard, so the relative attractiveness of the cables mattered
Oh but for what itās worth, the only times I had dropouts on usb audio, were when I was using an āupgradedā cable. Thatās what a problem sounds in digital land, dropouts. It doesnāt sound like ārounder bassā or āglassier trebleā these are not the realm of digital transmission methods.
Of course
A correctly specified hdmi cable is like Cat5e va cat6, it meets different standards for data transmission rates. Once you have the standard you need, you can stop. Upgrading hdmi cables is just as mad
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Says who? Iāve seen some terribly built aftermarket cables. This also suggests that the electrical noise isnāt rejected by the DAC itself via some form of galvanic isolation. Most Decent dacs donāt even connect the power cable of the USB line, so how exactly is that having an influence?
Just more audiophile nervosa
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Not too bright an idea, looking at it from the technical perspective, since USB allows the DAC to take full control of the clocking before conversion to analog vs. I2S going back to slaving the DAC to the incoming clock.
And then thereās Ethernet connected DACs, where galvanic isolation is guaranteedā¦