Version 1.8 improved sound quality

More likely, Auralic’s Roon implementation needs work. I used to own an Auralic Aries Femto so I know what I’m talking about. It’s kind of embarrassing for some of the fancy brands that a Pi2AES-based streamer costing ~$250 (+ some owner DIY labor) is one of the very best Roon endpoints you can get. Some higher-end brands know what they are doing. My Linn DSM systems (one Klimax, one Selekt) show no sound quality difference between Linn’s app (Kazoo) and Roon streaming.

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Which suggests the streamer(s) you are using fall short in design, implementation, or configuration. The data rates we are talking about are trivial for current hardware, if well programmed and complemented with quality (which does not mean expensive) power supplies and clocks.

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V1.8 will have zero change in SQ, as one would expect, but quell all outstanding feature requests :sunglasses:

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I think that this is perhaps a little harsh. I frequent a few audio forums, and a number of people (whose opinions I respect) have commented that they find that streaming from Roon/Tidal or (slightly less often) from Roon/Qobuz sounds slightly inferior to streaming the same item from ripped files located on their local storage devices. A number of others have claimed that on their systems, streaming from local storage devices sounds slightly inferior using Roon to streaming from these same storage devices using alternative software.

I have no reason to question the honesty of their reported opinions, and of course there could be many different reasons for these perceived differences. Many of these people continue to use Roon despite the perceived slight drop in sound quality because of the many other advantages offered by Roon.

I have to add that where mastering appears to be the same, I personally find that music streamed via Roon (either from ripped files on my NAS or Tidal) to my systems (2nd gen Linn Klimax, Sonore microRendu/Mytek Brooklyn DAC+) sounds to my ears at least as good as via any other option available to me such as Linn Kazoo or other control apps I have tried.

However, I certainly wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that people with a difference of opinion to mine of Roon’s sound quality are being disingenuous.

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I guess 1.8 will not have any implemented changes regarding sound quality, nevertheless there will be many reports on how much better or worse it sounds then the current version. It has been this way each and every release so I don’t expect it to be any different this time.

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@Fernando_Pereira reading your suggestion some part of my streamer being mediocre was hurting me first, but now I managed my feelings and should be able to continue in constructive discussion :wink: Why did I took it so personal? Cause the best streamer I had (and have) in chain is actually built by me :slight_smile:
While you are referring to PI2AES i haven’t chance to hear this one. I heard DigiOne Signature which seems to be similar principle as PI2AES. I have still preferred by small margin my “Coppermine” as i like to call it and as it use I2S i’m able to stream DSD128 which is not the case for AES or SPDIF where DSD64 via DoP is max. Or is Pi2AES special in some way it beats DigiOne?

Just for the further entertainment of folks :popcorn: here is a diagram.

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Since I started using HQPlayer the issue about Roon and sound quality is not applicable for me personally, but Roon has a way to go with their DSP engine before its as good as for example the one in HQPlayer.

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The problem with all these very minor differences in sound quality is that it allways will be 100% system dependant wether it will be received as being better or worse. And even then, the differences are allways very minor and probably not worth worrying about. A change in loudspeakers has literally a thousandfold of an impact. If you want this level of tweaking have a look at xxhighend, then you’ll have 2,5 million options in settings that all sound different according to the developer.

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Changes to firmware have had a noticable affect on my Naim system and I am not alone with this. Being on the beta program even more so as your testing non optimised versions. I imagine bugs of any kind have cause and affect on how the software runs on the device it’s on. If your direct attaching core to DAC I can see why changes to Roon could affect SQ, less so for the endpoint systems. Saying that I have not noticed any myself as I use my core in my headphone system nowadays and noticed no change from using a seperate endpoint NuC or from the recent update. All sounds great to me.

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Why? I can’t see why Roon should transport data any different.

More or less CPU noise that gets transferred over USB to DAC. Same reason Roon don’t recommend using core as a direct attached endpoint in the first place.

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If there is changes in SQ between software, including versions, that all claim to transport bit perfect audio without any DSP (including upsampling), there is something really wrong.

The software is just a transport of unaltered data. Any change in SQ must be addressed to other components in the chain.

Any kind of DSP is of course a different matter.

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I think that is more about a theoretically issue, not very common with equipment from the last ten years. Don’t run your endpoint on diesel.

Of course very bad USB implementations exist, and the place to start improving. So IMO Roon’s advice is good if your hardware is sub par, and only then.

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I wouldn’t be happy if this is the case. You buy it because it sounds so, then after a fw update its different. Was I so mislead before?

I have never noticed a difference in sound via Meridian and Bluesound. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t one, but I just never noticed. It just sounds right…

I am unconvinced that 1.8 will result in “improved” SQ. But the possibility of new, actually useable, features is truly exciting to me.

There are not too many Christmas surprises at my age (73) – especially this year – so the expectation of new ways to enjoy my library is intriguing.

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The only time you have a chance of better sound quality is when code gets optimized. This would also have to be done with their RAAT protocol as well for those with separate end points.

When I used to use Audivana on pc connected directly to dac, you could hear slight changes in sound quality for better or worse version to version. With roon, I hear differences depending on the end point I’m using but I’ve never paid attention to software versions.

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As an engineer I know well about feeling personal about one’s creations.

Pi2AES supports I2S (either HDMI or RJ-45 depending on small add-on boards) as well as AES and S/PDIF. Over the years I’ve had several different DACs that accept I2S (Holo Spring, Metrum Onyx, Sonnet Morpheus) and I2S sources (Singxer SU-1, Metrum Ambre, Pi2AES). I’ve not compared all of these A/B, but most of the changes in my various audio chains have involved blind A/B comparisons with a good listener. My current Pi2AES>I2S>Morpheus chain is as good or better than anything before, but of course that is based on a long windy trail of pairwise comparisons and occasionally other changes so…

I don’t use DSD, though. Because DSD involves higher data rates, it’s possible that none of the above applies in your case, and in any case Pi2AES is PCM only AFAIK.

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It’s got better with more recent ones which is a bonus. It’s subtle changes really as they alter their DSP to return it to as close to house sound after major code changes. It’s not drastic but there was some that pushed it a little too far in one direction. Some Innuos users are also finding the latest version of system software has changed its sound. So this is really not unique.

I’m reminded of astronomers looking out into the stars for the faintest flicker that could be interpreted as intelligent life, then suddenly they get all excited, before the sighting is explained…
:joy: Just kidding :joy:

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