10 Gb Ethernet anyone?

I wasn’t really telling you, in particular.

I have professional experience with ethernet as a software engineer (I even have networking patents issued, but never mind…). So, when I read posts like these, I am offering an opinion that might help others avoid spending money where it doesn’t make sense to do so.

Understood, and I definitely have no interest in getting into any flaming situation (at least not today :slight_smile: ) - but based on the strain I occasionally put my network under, I do think a faster backbone, even without faster endpoints, could have some theoretical benefit.

That said, it sounds like any affordable 10GBE switch probably would be a piece of junk and I should hold off on that expense until a few generations of hardware.

Meanwhile. I am running a 100 Mbps switch between my NAS and network player for playback. All the audio-oriented switches are also 100 Mbps.

I will also be looking into 10Gbps switches in the future, for audio and other things. Now that iMacs along with Mac Mini offer 10Gbps options, I may try to incorporate that capability.

Many audio devices, particularly streamers, use 100MB Ethernet as a design choice because it uses less power and is likely to generate less electrical noise. So if you really need 10GB elsewhere in your network, I would be inclined to keep such LAN hardware well away from your audio gear.
(I suspect the vast majority need nothing more than 1GB networks for home use, but perhaps you are an exception?)

I have found GB ethernet sufficient for my needs, certainly better than WiFi! No drop outs and seemingly rock solid from my Nucleus to my Kef LS 50 Wireless speakers (although no longer used wirelessly!!).

Yeah that’s why I have a separate network in my home with own router and switch. No internet or other traffic on it. Just bare essential for audio. For big file transfers, I’ll have the NAS and iMac connected to a gigabit connection on the spare router directly. For playback, they are on the same 100Mbps switch.

Yeah the 10Gbps won’t be for audio playback. It will be for other things. It will become a more useful feature as hopefully the prices for 10Gbe equipment become cheaper. I have had Thunderbolt 3 on MacBook Pro, but finally looking forward to having that and 10Gbe in my next desktop computer.

“All options are on the table.”

Now that’s a great response

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What’s your point? :stuck_out_tongue:

I do have my Roon on my NAS which is 10G connected. I am currently at the stage of building/getting ready for 10G home network as network is my current active hobby. Though as others have said, i don’t know what benefit I am really getting from it but oh well. It’s my obsession. I’m sure Roon community members understand what I mean here as we all are obsessed in high quality music while majority of world don’t see our obsession.

To answer OP questions,

  1. Is anyone using Roon with 10GB ethernet switches or network cards? Any problems with it? All compatible?

Yes. All compatible. Network link usually Auto negotiate to lower speed if necessary. So if you have 10G port on switch but attached computer is 1G, it will go down to 1G. The usually comes from the fact some 10G ports will do 1G but won’t do 100 or 10 Mbps. But I’d think connecting anything below 1Gbps to 10G ports is not a good setup.

(2) if I have two 10GB ethernet switches in the house but no actual computers or other devices with anything more than GB ethernet adapters in them, does this do anything beneficial at all - I mean, assuming that there is other traffic between these two switches (streaming video, etc.) does the mere having a faster connection between the two switches do anything to help general network congestion? Or is the speed at the endpoints a limiter as between communication between switches? Something I don’t know…

As you said, Network is bottleneck based. So slowest speed or the weakest link in a given pathway dictates the entire flow of the path.

Having said that if you have switch and two paths are just crossing at the switch but not beyond or before, they are independent. This is why 10G has been used often as a backbone connection between switches even when each switch ports may still be 1Gbps.

So to specially answer your question, if two switches were connected by 1Gbps link and you have a two data path simultaneously crossing two switches, you can’t get total above 1Gbps between the switches ie two simultaneous 1Gbps won’t happen. If two are equally sharing the interswitch connection, it will be 500 Mbps.

Whereas if you had 10G between the switches even if all computers are 1G, this situation will benefit because each path can cross switches same time at peak 1Gbps.

Now having said this, if you don’t have many devices, and you know which pathway often require active traffic, you can avoid above situation by simply avoid having traffics just go through one switch. This is why each switch has Backplane throughout rating.

Lastly, 10G will exceed some of hard drives access speed so if one has NAS, most of times those may not see a real benefit as hard drive access is bottle necking.

Let me offer a different take on switch and router selection. Here at Dismal Manor I use Ubiquity UniFi switches and routers. The reason that I do is that they are affordable managed kit. I can use the management bits to troubleshoot issues in the network (rare). All of my Roon Endpoints are on Wired Ethernet. Roon server and the Roon Server and lounge endpoints are connected to a common switch.

The key thing for me is that UniFi kit has far fewer open vulnerabilities than Netgear, Linksys, and similar home and SOHO kit. Most of these run older versions of Linux that have not been patched up to date. It is not uncommon to find the console and SSH root login secured by weak or well known passwords (release default). I don’t know that they have improved security practices with new product.

UniFi management nodes and router/switches will prompt you to change the management account passwords. The management host will offer the opportunity to configure 2 factor authentication using FIDO. I find this convenient as 1Password will compute FIDO tokens and 1Password Apple Watch App will let you use your watch to view them.

Ubiquity are keeping vulnerabilities closed and steadily improving the product line with periodic software updates. Software updates and the management framework are included with the equipment purchase. Hardware is robust and well behaved. Software is robust and well behaved. I have one WiFi access point that is obsolescent but UI have warned me that it is no longer available and is on limited term support.

As you add each UniFi device, the controller adopts it for management and the device local management portal is disabled. Management authentication happens at the network controller. The controller also enforces WiFi wireless access policy and logs in guests.

UniFi Controller automatically updates the WiFi access points as new firmware is released. I manually update the switches and controllers. UniFi will E-mail me when updates are available. It will also E-mail me when something needs attention. It easily configures Gmail using an APP password from Google accounts. The Email event notifications are configurable.

Checking my traffic volumes, I’m coming nowhere near saturating a 1GB link or any of my 1GB switches. I’ve put my money toward robust business grade devices and wired Ethernet. You will see no advantage from 10GB links however improved firmware in the newer 10 GB devices may be more robust than in your older 1GB devices.

I live next to Norfolk Airport, the Navy and its Aegis destroyers and cruisers are 4 miles down the road. The F-18 master jet base and Fleet Anti-air warfare training people are 12 miles down the road. The associated training ranges are off shore. So I’m in a wicked EMI environment. The UniFi kit is smart enough to move out of the way of an arriving or departing aircraft radar and the big air search radars in the area. The management server logs each occurrence of radar interference.

You can move up to UniFi in stages. The switches can be added at any point as funds allow. I’d start with a UniFi “Dream Machine” which provides the complete network core in one package, management server, router, Ethernet switch, and WiFi access point. I’d see how well it covers your spaces.

The Dream Machine Pro includes 2 fiber optic SFP ports that can be added when fiber to the home becomes available. They can be used as uplinks or downlinks. It has an 8 port switch plus WiFi and surveillance NVR. This is a very attractive device that replaces four from the prior product line.

Dream Machine offers a simplified management environment that reduces configuration effort relative to UniFi. If you are not a computing professional, you may prefer it to the Cloud Key and separate router and WiFi. Increasingly, you describe the environment and the management server handles the configuration details. Dream Machine is a step up in assisted configuration from the older Cloud Key controllers.

If you find you have some WiFi dead zones, you have 2 options: add a mesh access point or add an in-wall access point at one of your existing Ethernet endpoints. The In Wall access points have a 4 port bridge plus the WiFi kit allowing you to insert the access point between the network drop and a shelf switch.

The UniFi switches come in regular and POE versions. POE is useful when a switch serves a VoIP phone or surveillance camera powered by POE. UniFi has just added some new Gen 2 rack switches and new user point of service shelf switches.

My WiFi access points are all In-Wall devices with bridges handing off to the shelf switches. I have 4 networks, one for in-house iThings, one for IOT things, and one for guests, and a fourth because I was too lazy to reconfigure the Nest stuff. Each access point can support multiple WiFi networks.

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Hello All,
In case you are not searching for the quickest database information but prefer the sound quality it is nice to experiment with the network.
For good sound quality it is good to reduce the jitter from the network that delivers the sound. (Jitter is related to the timing of the bits, small variations of the on and off moment of the bits.)
To gain sound quality reduce the data speed of the supply to you network player! Reduction of the speed gives a reduction of the jitter. The timing of the bits get better.
Some people do this by introducing a more stable power supply.
I happend to have a manageable TP-Link network switch and reduced the data speed from 1 Gb to 100 kb. What happens is that (as it’s called) the background of the music turns further black and width and depth get more precise.
Here it does not give any problem to play 196 kH and 24 bits music files on a 100 kb data network.
(This speed reduction is also possible by modifying the networkcable. It needs cutting of some of the wires.)
Happy listening, Edwin

Maybe relevant if a network delivers sound—it doesn’t. Therefore jitter, in this context, is a red herring.

However, this is really going off topic; there’s another thread dedicated to this kind of discussion.

Am I the only person here whose OCD is killing him over the misuse of upper and lower case B (or b) to represent bits or bytes?

I can excuse the OP who wishes to learn about this stuff, but there are posts above from folks who work in networking who are getting it wrong!

Lowercase b represents a bit.
Uppercase B represents a byte.

Network speeds are most commonly expressed in number of bits per second, not bytes per second!

You’re a factor of 8 out if you use an upper case B!

10 GB or 1GB or 100MB has no place being used to discuss Ethernet speeds!

It should be 10Gb, 1Gb, or 100Mb.

Sheesh…!

Rant over!

:nerd_face::nerd_face::nerd_face::nerd_face:

p.s. tongue firmly in cheek…! Please don’t flame me!! :nerd_face:

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Don’t get me started on the then and not than camp while we are at it…i.e. it’s greater than not greater then…also rant over :slight_smile:

I would love to have 10Gb Ethernet switches but at this stage I can’t justify ripping out 6 or 7 existing switches to run a 10Gb backbone in the house

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There must of been a difference…

Must have been a difference…?

:rage::rage:

Sorry… we’re de-railing the thread…! :grinning:

I’ve fixed the topic to reflect Gb too :slight_smile:

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Thanks @wizardofoz. I feel much better now…! :smile:

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