Audiophile SATA cables

Hard-nosed audiophiles are a sect. At least they behave like one. They make extraordinary claims that aren’t backed up by any scientific evidence or empirical data (apart from the very subjective claim that their ears can hear the difference). Sects are immune to rational arguments because their rationalisation processes fall outside the normative standards of fact and argument validation. They’re special, yet another hallmark of the sectarian – and if only because they have such delicately sculpted ears that they perceive signals from the non-material world.

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Let’s also not forget their self-proclaimed ‘highly resolving’ systems (a thinly veiled euphemism for expensive), even though objective measurements show little correlation between price and performance in high-end audio…

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Seems being open minded is not everybody‘s strength here :slight_smile:

@Markus_Hubner I’m always open-minded to new ideas, however outlandish claims in the realm of the impossible stretch my patience and open-mindedness to breaking point…

When have you ever heard a die-hard audiophile say “Yes, my perception may be biased, I’ll do some blind listening tests to try to eliminate subjective bias”?

No, they expect everyone to just believe that because they can hear it, it is real.

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Well there is a lot that contributes to overall audio perception.
You previously said: „You’re free to buy what you like based on your beliefs, however I take issue with those who state effects are real, purely based on their say-so, without any proof.“

It’s everybody’s decision to go with what they prefer. You would never argue with someone why a red wine like Margaux, Sassicaia etc is preferred more than others to proof this.
Experience, being able to compare a vast number of different scenarios is a powerful way to approach that too.

For example power cables is also an area where people hear reasonable differences yet many doubt that. They might have a read of https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1138/Power-Demystified-whitepaper-8-23-18.pdf

Because they are fundamentally different. I make wine and drink a lot of it. Taking fruit from one row of vines can, and does, result in subtle differences from wine made from fruit that grew on a row even 10 metres away in the same block. Me, digging-out a one tonne fermenter in a previous vintage:

2 data streams from the same source, traversing different hardware, cables and even topologies, both arrive at their destinations and are subsequently reconstructed into what is provably exactly the same.

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2 data streams from the same source, traversing different hardware, cables and even topologies, both arrive at their destinations and are subsequently reconstructed into what is provably exactly the same.

Even when a formally conducted listening test with correct statistical analysis proves that sets of listeners can discriminate between the two of them?

Yes. Because what you are hearing is the DAC’s reconstruction of the data in the analogue realm, you are not listening to the data itself. The source data that arrived into each DAC would be exactly the same in both cases. Otherwise, you were not comparing eggs with eggs.

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Preferring a Margaux to a Sassicaia, or a Brunello to a Montepulciano is a matter of personal taste.

A very different matter to impossible claims of perception having no basis in reality.

I’m fully conversant with Garth Powell’s white paper. Sit back, put on an objective had and read it again. It’s all smoke and mirrors. No test methodology details, no measurement units. Is he just measuring the removal of noise from the mains, and then extrapolating that to convince you that there would be audible differences in an audio playback device?

A white paper is, by definition, a form of advertisement.

If I wrote a report like that, my boss would discipline me and the regulatory agencies to which I submit those reports would laugh me out of the room.

I’ve seen some of his circuit designs and have to question the electrical safety aspects of sticking a honking great choke in the earth line of a centre-tapped transformer…

Inductors resist the rate of change of current (V=L(dI/dt)). In an earth fault scenario, they would delay the rupture of a safety fuse, immediately followed by a massive back EMF/flashover when the fuse finally does rupture…

Lets keep the DAC the same for both sources. If listening tests show the sources routed through different sequences of hardware, cables, and topologies to the DAC are distinguishable, then how would you interpret it?

My point is that what the DAC produces at the analogue stage is influenced by both the data stream and the range of distortions and noise accompanying it. I wouldn’t underestimate jitter at this level either. An example: in servers, it’s been believed by designers for a long while that greater “electronic noise” associated with excessive reads from disc or excessive calls to a remote server, is passed along as noise that is audible. It’s been “shown” that much longer buffers, which cut down the number of data transactions during play, reduces the noise. This is what’s behind Memory Play. The parentheses are because I’ve never seen a measurement.

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I’d like to see the results of those statistically correct, formally conducted listening tests.

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Listening tests empirically cannot prove that two data streams with the same source data are distinguishable. If there is a difference in the data streams, the source data was different.

What listening tests would show is a different interpretation of what is heard in each case. The sound itself does not exist until the DAC has converted the data. If the data was the same in both cases, then something other than the data is causing the perception that the sound is different. Not the data.

Poor implementation of the software? Sure.
Questionable component placement and ill-conceived circuitry design? Sure.
Data? No.

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Citation would be helpful.

Pineapple is known to degrade digital pizza as well as analogue pizza, that’s a known fact.

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Make your point so it may be summarily flambéed, or otherwise accepted as a reasonable interjection.

This is currently betwixt and between.

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Pineapple has no place on any pizza! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Well… more of a personal error, I’d say. But, hey! More for me!

tumbleweed
I’m still waiting for one from Robbi on a question of mqa-upsampling months later…

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Hehe, first two Italian varieties that popped into my head, though from experience I’d rather have a good Muntepulciano than a more expensive, somewhat average Brunello. As you’re no doubt aware, the limited supply of Brunello prices it beyond its real value…

You’ll be waiting indefinitely for either, I expect…