Bye Roon, why I am not renewing my subscription

They are rather different. Yate provides a comprehensive toolkit for metadata modifying but you can only match to MusicBrainz one album at a time, and it takes the metadata from MusicBrainz as is. SongKong is designed so you can apply to your whole music collection, and applies more intelligence to MusicBrainz metadata such as resolving some of the issues with Classical metadata in MusicBrainz, such as correctly identifying the track artists in a consistent way.

If you have any questions about SongKong feel free to contact me on the Roon or the SongKong forums

I really think Roon would solve alot of its metadata issue by switching its primary metadata supplier from Rovi to MusicBrainz, and just using Rovi as a supplementary source where necessary.

  1. MusicBrainz has artist entities, this would solve the problem of confusing artists with the same name
  2. Generally the data is rich and correct, the database model is more sophisticated then other models.
  3. Data is freely downloadable, don’t have to use webservice (probably Rovi database do have to use webservice)
  4. Apart from the MusicBrainz Edits themselves the MusicBrainz metadata is a series of non -copyrightable facts and hence there are no licensing issues with the data (it is available under a public domain license)
  5. Data is editable by anyone so Roon customers can help resolve metadata issues themselves by editing/adding MusicBrainz data

There are two major problems with MusicBrainz

  • The database is not as large as Rovi
  • There are some decisions regarding Classical (such as having composer set as track artist) that are bad decisions

But both could be solved.

  • Roon could switch their resource currently used with dealing with Rovi to enter data directly into MusicBrainz, and leverage their customer base to help. (also quite easy to import data from Discogs/Bandcamp etc into MusicBrainz)
  • Roon can augment the MusicBrainz data with their own database. For example although MusicBrainz does not identify classical/non-classical releases an algorithm can be written that in most cases can identify if Classical and take action accordingly.
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How did they ever come to make such a stupid decision, there a rationale expressed somewhere?

Instead of switching their resource, could Roon give you the option of choice in the file editing feature. They decide which are the top 2 or 3 then give you a tick box to make your selection with the option of change at any time.

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Just my own thought for what it’s worth - while not perfect (nothing is) Roon is far and away the best music management and streaming client I’ve used, especially for online streaming services (Tidal in my case).

Mods have shifted the separate discussion about Posts About Leaving Roon into its own thread.

Can we get a moderator to clean this up? This is a good discussion that doesn’t need to be tainted.
I have fully enjoyed Roon and I worked hard to get my system to be able to handle it. I came from JRiver and before that was that Apple disaster. My collection is massive and it took Roon a while to come up to speed with it, but I am pleased with the epic amount of discussions regarding artists, albums, graphic content, and comparisons (rabbit trails) that are contained within. I have discovered so many things about my collection through this service. I don’t do any streaming.
I hope for continued improvement in metadata and continued development of the discussions. I would welcome the ability to edit metadata or even contribute to a Roon knowledge base of metadata, and a place for me to make comments about what I think is good about a track or an artist.

I think it is something like this.

When MusicBrainz was first created it was focussed on Pop/Rock. Peoples minor interest in Classical was very much focussed on the composer of the music, so being being able to list all tracks attributed to a composer was deemed more useful than all tracks attributed to a performer or conductor. They couldn’t do both because Advanced Relationships did not exist. Artist Credits allowing multiple artists to be credited and Recordings as a separate entity didn’t exist either, also meaning that Recording Artist didn’t exist.

Its very difficult to change the way things work after the event, but it doesn’t matter that much since TrackArtist is sort of a meta- meta field, the composer can usually be found by looking for compose relationships on the recording, the conductor for looking for conductor relationship and so on.

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That could be useful for user, but then leaves you with decision of which one to use and you may want to vary that for different album, and doesn’t help other customers with the same album. Much better if Roon provides you with the best data in the first place.

An analogy, I haved use Ancestry.com to create my family tree, it has good resources and easy to use, but as my research grew I kept encountering others on Ancestry whose sizeable family tree overlapped mine. Now I could copy part of their research to mine, as they could but this meant we were just continually duplicating each others work. Much better to import tree into wikitree and create a single family tree that everyone can work on, this is a much more productive approach.

Sorry Paul no intention to malign SongKong

I left Apple with my Apple ][ in the late 80’s soo can only go off what people comment

SongKong is a great product and I recommend it all the time

To each his own. Enjoy the music.

Not everybody has the same preferences; I am sure there are people out there who appreciate both music and the Metadata that comes with the files. You need to understand and accept that

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I do understand that. I just don’t think you cancel a great service like Roon because you don’t like the metadata. I personally use Roon to listen to music. I don’t ever read any of the metadata. I really don’t care if it’s even there. You obviously feel different and if it’s an issue for you I hope you find something that makes you happy. I have.

No I do not feel differently and it is not an issue for me. I like roon and I’m staying with it, I am just telling you there are people with different tastes and priorities. If somebody chooses not to stay with roon for whatever reason, that’s just their choice.

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Fully agree. Never said otherwise.

Me too. I love the music I hear from Roon, throughout my house, all sorts of setups. (And for some I even get to play with RPis and the like.) Yet I still use iTunes to FIND that music (my own personal manually curated hierarchically organized playlists), because in my experience Roon is a weak to terrible platform for helping me find my own music. You can find many users making the same complaint. Moving on, Roon’s queue, radio, and connection to streaming services are also great. It’s that hole in the middle that is by far its weakest point.

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I think metadata is such a big issue for many because its primarily what sets Roon apart from the competition.

There are 10’s of music players that “play music” as well as, if not better than Roon but non of them have the rich meta data infused browsing system.

This is what people pay a lot of money for.

Without it they may as well look elsewhere for a lot less outlay.

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It’s hard to generalize. Some of us chose Roon so that they can have good-quality digital music distribution to multiple systems throughout their home, controlled by any mobile device that happens to be at hand (I tried several other options before, none good enough). Metadata integration is useful too, but not the key value for us. The recent upgrade of the Radio algorithm and integration with Qobuz are (delightful) icing on the cake. As for “a lot of money,” a Roon lifetime subscription cost a small fraction of the total hardware cost of my home audio systems.

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It sounds as if you should take a look at 3beez Wax. I have been using it for years. It makes it possible to do everything you described. It uses Musicbrainz to populate as much metadata as possible – most of it, usually – and then I am free to add whatever I want, including track artists. It is especially good with classical and jazz, which happen to be the genres that predominate in my collection. You can also store liner notes with Wax and it has an embedded browser so that you can view Wikipedia entries related to the recording. Wax also has a powerful search capability. You might not like that it is available only through the purchase of a Wax Box music server. It’s a fairly expensive audio component, but it does everything that you need in a server and its sound quality is excellent. Also, I read that 3beez is working on a less expensive version. I still use Roon for casual listening, but Wax is much better for enjoying music in my own collection.

I too have heard of 3beez wax, and it does supposedly have great classical and jazz support, but if you thought lifetime cost of roon was high you better sit down … maybe lay down before you hit the buy button on 3bw :money_mouth_face:

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