Please help me understand. I have owned/started businesses and run businesses for others as I’m sure many of you have. What is baffling to me in this conversation is how some are presenting the ultimatum that if Roon doesn’t give them the opportunity to adjust its product to the model they prefer they will take their ball and go home. It is certainly the right of any end user to make the decision for themselves if they want to take advantage of what is arguably the best product of its kind, but the idea that anyone would think Roon Labs owes them the right to make changes to the product model as they wish, is quite frankly difficult to comprehend. A benefit of this forum is that Roon listens to its customers and tries to implement where it can. How often does any business welcome this level of contribution? My apologies for the rant. I truly hope that one day soon I’ll “get it”.
Nobody said Roon owes them anything. Many want to see Roon improve though and do more of what’s promised here, especially the makes connections piece:
According to the licence agreement Roon software is what it is - nothing else. I’d guess most know; but as you said yourself: the end user can decide if it’s something to pay for. And it might help to tell why sometimes it’s not - for one thing it’s (just) for one own’s good venting a bit about what seems wrong.
But announcing not to spend money (any more) on a product which doesn’t live up to one’s expectations (any longer) and explaining the reasons is worthy feedback for the maker of the product. If something should change is up to the product makers to decide. Again, I’d guess most know this, too.
I’ve been a software executive for 20+ years. This is the world everyone in this business lives in.
Mmph… Some strange comments in this thread.
Aaaaaaanyways… Customers complaining about products that don’t deliver what the advertisement promises aren’t acting out of a sense of entitlement. They are acting out of a sense of betrayal for lack of a better word.
Why betrayal instead of disappointment? Because if a vendor keeps boasting and doesn’t live up to the boast, it leaves the customer with a sense of not being taken seriously. Remember: the customer pays! Terms of service may be worded as non commitally as you like, the paying customer has based his/her expectations on the marketing blurb. Besides: the typical “we promise nothing” US-style terms of service may well fly in the US, in Europe they are considered as bad form in the best of cases and they can even be considered as void when the CYA level is unreasonably high. Caveat emptor is not a superseding legal rule in Europe.
It’s a communication thing. I have a love-hate relationship with Roon, as most of the community members know. I am also a Celt and we take our boasts very seriously. Put up or shut up is the adage here. Can’t put up? Then pipe down or get called out on it.
Such is the price of doing business. Many of us here seem to be business owners or managers. So we ALL know that if you promise one thing and deliver another, you get chewed out by the client. That is your own fault. Promise something realistic and deliver on your promise and you will get satisfied customers. Deliver just a bit more than you promised and you will get rave reviews and loyal customers.
So it’s not entitlement, it’s not childishly throwing a tantrum, it’s normal customer behavior.
What specifically is not being delivered that the advertisement promises? Is this about satisfaction (which we know and mostly accept can’t be guaranteed) or some claim of functionality not actually delivered?
The OP was unhappy with the accuracy of metadata. OK.
I think the strength of Roon is the metadata and how it can be used, even in it’s imperfect state.
Its just human nature. There is going to be a distribution of how people view this. The question, I think, is how much resource do you put into satisfying the tail of the distribution curve? If the OP wants to express their concern, they have every right to.
Let me try to word this in a way that won’t get anyone’s knickers in a twist (probably a futile effort, but what the hey 
):
Roon advertises this:
The solution
Roon looks at your music and finds photos, bios, reviews, lyrics, and concert dates, and makes connections between artists, composers, performers, conductors, and producers.
What you get is a searchable, surfable magazine about your music.
and this:
Roon understands your content
Music lovers have content from many sources, often acquired over years of collecting.Roon identifies >your music, then enhances it with the latest metadata.
And this isn’t just for your local files, it works for content from TIDAL too!
Roon does this to some extent, but to a far lesser extent than the blurb would have you believe. It fails miserably on Belgian music for instance.
This might not be a big issue for most customers, but it is a big issue if you’re a Belgian customer. The same will probably apply to other, lesser known sources of music.
It also applies to classical music. Yes, yes, I know… Classical music is a rat’s nest to catalogue, but no-one can state that classical music is a niche. It’s a large and very diverse body of music that will never go away.
Then you get the time honoured defence (mostly from Roon devotees) that goes something like this: “It isn’t Roon’s fault, they depend on third party sources for the metadata”.
Though this might be true, the customer doesn’t get what is promised so boldly. It’s not the “promised” part that gets customer’s crows, it’s the “boldly” part.
I’ve been in business for over thirty years now and though intellectually I understand that a bit of exaggeration is necessary to generate business, morally - yes, I know this is a big statement - it grates.
I would prefer a little nuance. A caveat for the customer. An honest statement that clearly says: “we source our information from third parties and as such we cannot guarantee your music and the information about your music will be correct or even present.”
Preferably not in a hard to find disclaimer or in terms of service.
It’s a personal hang up… 
You are right, I’m Caucasian, middle aged (53.5), middle class, income 100k and i have worked bloody hard to get there and i dont care if anyone doesn’t like it.
I’m polite, respectful but dislike prejudice.
THIS! RIGHT! HERE!
Nothing new. Just with the invention of “the internet” where everyone big and small has a voice, it’s now plainly laid out for all to see. I abhor hearing these sort of things, too, previously being in the software industry. Of course, squeaky wheel (read: higher paying clients) gets the grease…
In reference to original post…
I see two things happening here:
-
Roon is subscription model. Opposite of that is pay once and get something in return and maybe to get something different or more in return I pay again. On the pay once model if the thing I got in return becomes less value to me than the personal investment to use it I just walk away. The subscription model, however, forces a constant re-evaluation of the value of my subscription. It’s easy to decide that something which was once “WOW” is now “ho-hum” and I walk away.
-
Roon is early software, early adoption, and takes a fair bit of “personal investment” to use. This creates an emotional attachment to the product which is hard to let go of. Normally, without an emotional attachment, you’d just walk away. But, with an emotional attachment, people will go through (although not exactly the correct way to state it) a period of grief before letting go. One of the stages of grief is bargaining. And, hence, you see plenty of posts where people have made the decision to walk away but, because they are emotionally attached, they play the “bargaining” game asking for “the one thing” that will allow them to stay.
Roon should stay focused on their roadmap. People need coping stills to walk away from software and that software’s community. If Roon’s roadmap is flawed then competing services will win and the entire community will shift together.
I’ll also add 3) those bargaining threads get long because of the fear that the community will shrink. Those still invested in the software and community want to help that person stay. It’s a really enduring goal and provides a great feedback loop for the personal investment / attachments one feels towards the software. But, again, it’s just software. It’s OK if others stop using it.
Oh you get it. You observations and conclusion is spot on. Kudos!
Rudy, I appreciate what you’re conveying here. People do vote with their choices and their dollars. That said Roon has been a godsend to my enjoyment of music, and as you said they do provide a forum for feedback and often respond to what folks are wanting. I think one of the challenges for any business now, especially in the high end digital arena is that there are a lot of sophisticated end users who are very demanding. That’s ok, because it does challenge everyone to push forward. However, sometimes I find it’s good to step back and remember what has already been accomplished, the enjoyment derived and just be grateful. When I started with moving my collection to digital storage a decade ago I mused about wanting to pick up the albums, know who was playing what, who engineered it and when it was recorded. Roon does that well, it also provides a great sounding platform that works with many different set-ups and it organizes a collection of thousands of albums.
Not to be too obtuse, but I don’t get the grateful part.
Roon sells a product, I pay for it. I’m not entirely happy with the product but I keep paying for it.
Who should be grateful to whom here?
I don’t think this has anything to do with an exchange of money for goods or services. If I go to a restaurant and the services is exceptionally good I may echoes gratitude. Likewise if a colleague, friend or stranger helps me out I will be thankful.
When I listen to music I am grateful for the artist and for Roon which helps me discover something new.
It’s good for us to show recognition.
I will feel and express gratitude in a commercial exchange whenever the circumstances warrant this. I have also been on the receiving end of this many times.
But here, there is no such situation. I buy a subscription service from a vendor who doesn’t know me from Adam and treats me as such: one of many customers. This is a perfectly normal situation.
I am not entirely satisfied with the product but I still do not cancel my subscription, partly because there is one part of the service that is superior to competing products, namely play queue management.
Again: which way should the gratitude go?
If you want to feel gratitude to a service provider, by all means do.
As far as I am concerned I am in a strictly commercial relationship with Roon. Gratitude has no place in this relationship. I fulfilled my end of the bargain, Roon has too, sort of but not to my entire satisfaction.
The appreciation of the services rendered is after all up to the paying customer and not up to the service provider.
Firstly @Frank_Daman thank you for your explanation to my question earlier. It helps put your particular circumstance in perspective. Secondly, I agree with @Martin_Webster, it is OK to praise Roon and give recognition for the things they do well. It is equally OK to make them aware of perceived failings and give them reasons why you are unhappy. Personally I’d do that off line. Getting into disagreements with otherwise happy customers doesn’t actually achieve anything.
I agree with you on that point.
Now reverse the point of view if you will: dismissive comments in the vein of “I’m happy with the product and I imply that you should be too” don’t achieve anything either, except maybe increase the irritation level of the dissatisfied customer.
We are still talking about a commercial transaction as far as I am aware.
Now, as to indicating shortcomings, I can’t really see the point in doing that off line. By using this forum “dissenters” get a voice too. Unless the point of this board is to praise all things Roon.