Can Roon analyse 'sonic similarity' like Plex Super Sonic?

Plex Super Sonic is a new feature just released for PlexAmp. It analyses sonic similarity of songs across the local library and presents connections and recommendations in various ways.

Are there any equivalent Roon features in the works? Or capabilities through Valence or similar?

I need to turn that back on in Plex

I did turn it on last week but it left my Synology at 100% processor usage for the whole day until I killed it.
Looks interesting but looks like there is a lot of analysis going on.

I am out most of the day so I might turn it on and let it run. They are building some nice features into PlexAmp and Plex now, though doesn’t match Roon in most ways.

Yes, I’m running Plex Media Server on NVidia Shield after tiring of my Syno CPU getting maxed. PMS is really hungry!

For Roon equivalent on ‘sonic similarity’, there’s some light(?) analysis of waveform and dynamic range- wondered whether there’s anything already in plan to expand on this, or that might be achieved towards this with a low end Roon or ROCK server?

It would make sense for Roon to do some kind of cloud analysis of millions of albums and then only analyse the ones it doesn’t know.
Saying it sounds easy but I’m sure it isn’t.
The shield doesn’t have a huge amount of grunt for this (I have a couple) so I ended up removing them and just using my Synology which has enough grunt for this until now :joy:

1 Like

Not a new idea MusicIP did the same thing in the early 2000s

3 Likes

Interesting @ged_hickman1 , MusicBrainz was an excellent tool for library search and auto-tagging. Now I’ve learned that was in part thanks to MusicDNS - really powerful feature to match an album based on digital source alone…

From 2006 to now, I’m interested as to how 15 years of Moore’s Law might realise that power at the customer level. Clearly the folks at Plex are too!

@Michael_Harris, agree the possibility of Roon operating wholesale cloud analysis could speed that along too (Qobuz and/or Tidal permitting). Could be a wise next step for Plex too, assume they’d start with Tidal given how they’re progressing together of late.

Feels like an exciting gap for Roon to find a way to bridge, and integrate with Valence… Imagine the power of ‘sound-alike’ as another dimension for Focus and Roon Radio!

Any others agree?

1 Like

Yes that makes sense for both Roon and Plex to not get left behind with these features.
I was an early subscriber to Pandora and I spent so much money on new music because of the way it brought me new artists music. I almost laughed out loud when the British music industry had it shut down and reduced my spending on music for a long time after that.
I conversed with the Pandora CEO who said their findings matched mine and were equally shocked.

One of the reasons I subscribed to Tidal was it’s integration with both Roon and Plex as an in house/out house service.
So I am hopeful that they can work with both services to build these that work across platforms and with Qobuz. That would be good for all parties.

2 Likes

With 10k lossless albums accessible to both Plex (pass) and Roon (lifetime), I can say that Sonic Similar or Super Sonic is amazing. It is spot on and chooses similar sounding tracks in a small bandwidth. I enjoy it immensely with the PlexAmp app and headphones.

Must say I don’t have a streaming subscription like Tidal or Qobuz.
I think that Roon is depending heavily on Tidal or Qobuz features, maybe even to much.

I want to like ‘track radio’ in Roon, but I often get strange tracks, so I change to my playlists. Yesterday I fed the PlexAmp track radio choices in Roon to make a playlist. Hmmm, wish that was the other way around.

In the way I use it, PlexAmp is better than Roon for use with headphones and bluetooth. Roon loses connection when i pause the music, but when I pause with PlexAmp and turn on my headphone a few hours later, PlexAmp immediately starts playing from where it left off. Also Roon loses connection sometimes or pauses long between tracks, while Plex has never done that to me.

I don’t wish to replace Roon with Plex as I think they are two very different pieces of software. Roon is still superieur when listening to music with my Hegel and Harbeths via HQplayer.
But I do think that Plex made a gigantic step with Sonic Similar and surpassed Roon in that area. In a big way!

I suggest and hope that Roon focusses on what is their core business and keep it the best in the market.

8 Likes

Agreed entirely… thankfully for Roon, Plex’s music UI is, well… what you pay for.

No offense to @brian, but how well the similar feature works makes Valence, in its current incarnation, seem like Roon tried to kill a mosquito with a malfunctioning atom bomb: I haven’t had an instance of Céline Dion yet…

2 Likes

I just saw that announcement from Plex, and I came here looking for the info you provided, @H-H. Thank you. I don’t subscribe to any streaming services, and it is my understanding that Valence works best with such subscriptions. The fact that Plex doesn’t exclude tracks due to a lack of metadata is gold. I’ll have to give it a try, though adding that to my existing setup (audiolinux server) seems daunting. I hope the SQ is comparable or better!

Antonio be prepared for a long wait if you have a large Library. Mine has been processing for what seems like forever and it has crashed Plex (on Synology) twice. Hopefully it is more reliable on your system.

Still PlexAmp is a good app

Not sure if it has exclusive mode outside of windows in the main Plex app and on PlexAmp none at all it’s garbage and no remotes yet for any pc install you have to use the local UI.

Simon it only currently works in PlexAmp. The server portion only works on X86 server’s on Linux, Windows and Mac.

PlexAmp works well enough on my mobile, Mac and PC to choose and control the music in the office.
It may not be Roon, but it works well enough and they keep adding features and a lot of them work well.

1 Like

I know how it works Mike I have it. Plexamp just not bit perfect due to no exclusive mode on any platform. A big fail if you ask me and app serious about audio needs this. It also can’t be controlled by mobile app which means no headless use. Plex server does support exclusive on Windows but doesn’t support PlexAmp features but plays same sources. Why they have not added exclusive mode to me for a serious audio app is just plain silly. But hey it also makes a big thing about sweet ades and other such nonsense so bit perfect is not on thier agenda.

1 Like

Sorry Simon I misunderstood what you wrote.
But yes I understand the need for this, and hopefully it will come in the future.

I only use Windows to play to Chromecast and Sonos devices so never come across issues with that

Well, i don’t share your view on plex or plexamp. Off course is not comparable to Roon in terms of sound quality.
But this thread isn’t about that!
It’s about the Sonic Similar function in Plex / PlexAmp and your local audio files.

1 Like

I’m struggling to understand how it can determine what to play based on a waveform. May give it a try to see what the fuss is as I have PlexAmp set up for out.of house access but never use it inside.

Here are two examples of the radio function in Roon and in Plex. Both started with the same track. To me the lists in Plex are more enjoyable and more logical as a list.

I listen to Roon track radio a lot and wouldn’t like to mis it. Plex track radio just seems a lot better.

Example 1

Roon track radio:
Katie Melua - I will be there
Goldfrapp - Ooh la la
Andrew Bird - Bird symbol 2
Mandy Moore - Silver landings
Joss Stone - Fell in love with a boy
The Beautiful South - I’m your number 1 fan
Missy Higgins - 100 round the bends
Adam Ant - Beautiful dream
Elton John - My quicksand
Jewel - Good day

Plex track radio:
Katie Melua - I will be there
Musica Nuda - Libera
Becca Stevens Band - I asked
Above & Beyond - Peace of mind
Lera Lynn - So far
Simin Tander - Walk each other home
Loreena Mckinnett - the mummers dance
Tina Dickow - Parked car
A girl called Eddy - Julia
Rebekka Karijord - Morula

Example 2

Roon track radio:
Lana Del Rey - mariners apartment complex
Clairo - wade
The Creeps - sharpshooter
Caspian - Arcs of command
Kubb - Alcatraz
Transvision Vamp - Back on my knees again
Bradford - Always torn
Eels - Sweet li’l thing
Ryan Gregory Floyd - Let’ give them something to talk about
Palace winter lowly - Top of the hill

Plex track radio:
Lana Del Rey - mariners apartment complex
Amy McDonald - Crazy shade of blue
K.D. Lang - After the goldrush
Daughter - Landfill
Joni Mitchell - River
Keren Ann - Life of mars?
PJ Harvey - White Chalk
Neko Case - Calling Cards
Katy Kirby - Cool dry place
First aid kit - Fireworks

Seems we use PlexAmp the same way.
I am curious to hear about your findings.

Thanks @Michael_Harris and @CrystalGipsy. I have a large library (at least, I think I do), so I’m not looking forward to it. My biggest concern right now is the endpoint. The DAC is the PS Audio DirectStream with the Bridge II, and I want to avoid USB, so my options seem limited. I need to check if I can run it off of a HifiBerry Digi+ HAT. If not, then my next concern (sound quality) will be difficult to address, because I just don’t like the sound of USB, and I don’t want to drop change on all the “fixes” for it. If I can do an easy install (I’m sure there’s a suitable laptop laying around here somewhere), then I’ll do the comparison anyway, but it won’t be fair I suspect. I’ve never heard of how exclusive mode affects sound quality, so I can’t speak intelligently about it.

It will at least be fun to play with it for a bit!

Oh yeah: the lack of a remote app is terrible news to hear.

1 Like