Copyright violations, piracy, and helping out someone

(and if anyone feels like offering a backup of their collection for a suitable charitable donation I would be grateful beyond words as I simply dont know where to start over, CDs all gone long ago …)

Sorry about the event and all that but I think sharing in this way is still illegal? What’s Roons policy on this ?

I am pretty sure that no matter what country you are in, giving the OP music to replace what he lost is not exactly legal and should not be promoted on this forum.

Excellent point. Plenty of websites have been shut down over the years when they promote exchange of digital music files among end users. I’m no prude and I drive above the speed limit etc. Folks can make their own choices about breaking laws, and of course we’re not talking about murder here, and the police are not checking your digital music collections door to door. But as noted, in most countries sharing hard drives as suggested by some would be illegal.

And the fact he sold all his CDs while keeping the music, was already illegal in the first place. So perhaps the lightning strike was divine retribution. :laughing:

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In most places. Certainly in the US where I live. That’s one reason why I still have my 1000s of CDs, although they are stored away and not used. They also provide an ultimate backup.

p.s. I live in Florida. Lightning Capitol! So I do feel the OP’s pain. I suppose if I lost my collection and all backups, I’d likely just give up and move to Tidal or whatever the streaming option of the future happens to be. Maybe purchase a handful of favorite albums that are not available for streaming.

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That doesn’t really change anything from a legal perspective. To keep the copies you had on your NAS, you should have kept the CDs. As soon as you donated them, the tracks from those CDs should have been deleted from your NAS.

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Has that ever been tested legally?

I would expect that is the law although the chances of prosecution seem very low. I buy CD’s from charity shops often. I own the CD, they are on my hard drive as well as in my shed, boxed. So who has the rights to this music? The physical owner or the original owner who has disposed of it?
Who is going to bother to test this out and where will it lead if they do? Resources…

It is a mix of resources and plain pragmatism. Winning cements their notion in law but it would be very hard to enforce.

Try giving the police a “different take” on speed limits, see how it goes down.

I’m a little surprised Roon is letting this thread stand, suggesting as it is illegal file sharing.

Behind close doors etc, but touting on a forum? I’m sure it’s done, but not in public…

Quite a bit of “enforcement” is societal. i.e. finding it wrong, saying so, like we have the opportunity to do here…

Moral judgement comes in.

And is correctly ignored or we may as well bring back stoning. The law is there and if the agrieved parties are concerned they should bring about prosecutions and test that in law. The problem is that if they lost it would be a major blow to the industry. So of course it is left to concerned citizens to do what they are unable or unwilling to do. At the end of the day one of our number has suffered misfortune and it is natural to offer assistance where possible.

Thanks Henry, so having having morals is like stoning, I get that.

I feel it’s “natural” to point out the illegality, call me old fashioned. Behind closed doors is one thing, but on a HiFi Forum?

So I lost some money on the stock market, fancy chipping in Henry?

Yes! How much would you like? :joy:
As a rule I try very hard to live by my morals, and equally as hard not to impose them on others. As I have tried to suggest, there is a legal system. That is what ultimately determines right from wrong with regards to copyright. Not you or me.

As I said, it can be a societal thing. To offer your files suggest societal acceptance (you), to protest suggests non acceptance (me). If files are offered, it may be thought “OK”. We are our own police.

The legal system decides what’s illegal, not what’s right and wrong. Parents, schools, churches, peers and public figures educate on rights and wrongs (or used to, currently there appears to be a bit of a vacuum).

So Henry, it is you or me at the end of the day. But also in this case Roon, who by their acquiescence seem to be suggesting it’s OK.

My objection is using a sponsored forum to break the law. If you find that acceptable, that’s up to you. Roon appear to agree with you.

Try as hard as you like, you won’t make it legal or acceptable.

This community site should not become a place for piracy.

We do not agree with him, nor do we disagree with him. It is not our place to do either. If you’d like to talk about the effects of doing heroin while listening to Led Zeppelin on your USB DAC connected to a Nucleus, we do not care as long you keep the subject relevant to the music, the gear, or the software.

Also, while copyright violation is a legal offense, the laws in the US (where Roon Labs exists) only extend to profiting from the copyright violation. The rest is usually a civil matter, not criminal. It irks me to no length when people confuse criminal legality with civil agreement violation. One is far more serious than the other, and mixing the two sets a dangerous precedent.

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Not sure how you got to “dangerous precedents”, were talking about copying files. From my reading, the area is pretty grey. I don’t think you, I or the file copier will be setting any precedents. Principles are there however, for all to see.

Breaking the law can lead to civil liberties being taken away (crime).

I do not think breaking a civil license agreement between two parties should ever result in the same. You may think it should, but I’m glad that in the US it does not.

Judging “pirating music for personal use” like a crime is that dangerous precedent. You said it yourself, about social discourse… I am also just trying to set the baseline in the other direction. While I do not promote piracy, I strongly believe it is not a crime. For now, the law in the US agrees with me.

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In the Uk it is no longer legal to rip your own cd’s for your own use (it was legal for a time). So all of us Roon users here in the UK are already breaking the law as it stands today.