Roon uses https but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. I don’t know what options the Qobuz api/auth provides, but Roon just inlines all of the tokens/params.
Right you are - wget and curl certainly do support https.
Roon uses https but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. I don’t know what options the Qobuz api/auth provides, but Roon just inlines all of the tokens/params.
Right you are - wget and curl certainly do support https.
I bet Tidal is the same but don’t have it to check, I think Apples is pretty darned secure, likely why they won’t let third parties handle them.
This is the classic Audirvana vs Roon sound quality thread all over again!
Very interesting!
I installed Roon server directly on my NAS instead of my Nuc I5.
Surprised, as much as I heard a blatant difference in favor of Jplay with Roon on the Nuc, but with Roon on the Nas, it seems difficult if not impossible to tell a difference between Ron and Jplay.
The configuration therefore has an important role in this case…
I’m running Roon on a dedicated i5 NUC with minimal Debian 12 “bookworm” as the OS and just the headless Roon Server installed there. I could probably as well use Roon ROCK there instead. But actually I was planning to replace the whole thing with Nucleus One.
HQPlayer instances are running elsewhere.
Where both Roon and HQPlayer on same Nuc?
Now that they added HQplayer
Roon is no longer needed.
Whatever smoothing/rolloff effect Roon applies is clearly evident A/Bing the two.
Using Jplay iOS everything is more accurate, detailed, and expansive.
I do agree. I’ve been using Lumin’s native app and doing some comparisons with a recent Roon Nucleus One. All network hardware pieces are unchanged in testing. I consistently find Lumin native app exceeds Roon SQ pretty much across the board; there is more “see through” and extension with native. Roon can sound very good but it’s not the same experience SQ wise. Thanks to the amazing powers of the internet I found JPlay. It’s pretty slick!
Doing audio comparisons over the next week or so.
Are these benefits available with just a Lumin network transport (U series) or do you need a Lumin (X, T, D series) network player to hear them?
Hello @Anthony_B . I am using a Simaudio/Moon 791 Network player that is connected to my Lumin U2 via USB. The difference b/t Roon, Mind2, and Lumin are all very evident. My home network is high performance: EERO mesh fed by fiber from provider. Capable of sustained ~1GBPS downloads. Lumin is fed (optically into Lumin SFP port) by network switch with an SFP port connected to the EERO router. No WiFi involved. I believe my audio system is very low noise and capable of rendering extremely fine source recording details. Perhaps this is why it’s easier to hear such differences b/t roon and lumin apps.
All decoding processing in Roon is done on the server, Roon Ready code is a lightweight player it does very little and no processing its all done on the server. UPnP servers can be configured to send what you want and again this is done on the server, but if you send flac to the endpoint its internal decoder will come into play as it would with WAV or AIFF. DAC circuits only accept PCM or DSD so PCM data has to be converted, Roon saves this process as it sends native PCM from PCM files that the DAC or any other DSP chips can take in.
I believe FLAC decoding on Linux/RoonOS uses Libflac, the developer of the codecs own code. On Windows not sure may be the OS own decoder same for MacOs but as they only added FLAC for a few years it may also use libflac.
Thank you so much for the detailed response. I appreciate you! I will echo back to make sure I understand, using Tidal as source of FLAC, and Lumin as endpoint.
Scenario A: Roon
Roon Server- receives decapsulated FLAC packets from NIC (PHY/MAC) layer and *implements the reverse of the FLAC compression encoding algorithm. Roon server repacks the PCM data into new packets destined for outbound transfer to remote endpoints. Endpoint hardware, say Lumin U2 in this case and running in Roon Ready mode, has Roon player software that receives the decapsulated (stripped off headers from nominal transfer over LAN) PCM data and then reformats that for USB protocol…then it’s off to the USB DAC to do the conversion to analog.
Scenario B: UPnP
An app on an iPhone or iPad requests a track from Tidal (the server). The UPnP Client (UPnP software in Lumin hardware) receives decapsulated FLAC packets from NIC (PHY/MAC) layer and *implements the reverse of the FLAC compression encoding algorithm. Lumin hardware reformats the PCM data for USB protocol…then it’s off to the USB DAC to do the conversion to analog.
Assuming that Lumin does it correctly, there is only one way to decode FLAC, it being a lossless format, so the data being fed to the DAC should be identical.
Of course, all other things being equal there is no difference in SQ between any bitperfect lpayer anyway.
" Of course, all other things being equal there is no difference in SQ between any bitperfect lpayer anyway."
…your qualifier, “all other things being equal” is the KEY here. Believe me when I say this, it does not make me smile that Lumin app (or Lumin controlled by Jplay) sounds better than Roon. Roon is an incredible piece of software that seems to understand what a UI should look and behave like (except the never-ending iPhone app freezing issue). It def sets the bar. I have a Roon Nucleus One and have been a Roon user for years. It gives me no pleasure (apart from sonic benefit that is) to realize other methods of playing back FLAC files from Tidal or Qobuz sound better in my system than when commanded by Roon. It’s actually super annoying and frustrating.
I installed it on the iPad I use as my Remote
To me it looks like any UPnP Control app, it doesn’t merge Local and Tidal
I have used CA Stream Magic, mconnect, JRemote and the Naim app. I can’t see anything it provides above those. In fact it needs a UPnP Server to provide its source.
Am I missing the big secret ?
It does merge them all into one Library that bit really isnt hard, LMS does it as does Innuos own app, what they dont do is versions which makes Roons integration better. Your missing its audiophile credentials that it claims to generate less network polling to your device and thus better SQ. Without anything to back it up of course that this actually make any difference.
TBH, if this is really the case, and not just some subconscious bias, I just add it to (already long) list of reasons not to buy from that particular manufacturer.
Did you check that they do play at exactly the same volume when using their app vs. something else?
I certainly have, and I’ve been doing relaxed listening at different volume levels and music genres too as the mood and family members modulate my listening sessions. In all cases Lumin/ JPlay sounds better to me. Cleaner, more air, more open.
I don’t use HQP but the theme (Jplay and Roon VS sonic quality) is pretty much the same. Thanks!
also I bought a brand new Roon Nucleus One direct from Roon. It’s powered off the same AC source the network switch is on too. By your statement " …list of reasons not to buy from…" do you mean in such a case as mine where I hear an improvement from playing Lumin direct or Jplay, VS Roon Nucleus One you would NOT buy the Lumin or Roon core? Thx