I don’t often post here on this forum, because I’ve got plenty of good reasons to be self-conscious about my English. Nevertheless, I’ll try my very best…
I think I know why people like @Axel.S or @hwz (as well as quite a few other posters here) are often misinterpreted in this discussion. They neither belong in the believers’ nor in the non-believers’ camp. Like myself, they’re agnostics - in the following sense:
“Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle … Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable.” (Thomas Henry Huxley)
This methodical agnosticism has absolutely nothing to do with the emotions that make music enjoyment such a worthwhile experience. The sole purpose of this method is to distinguish between what is demonstrable and what isn’t. Methodical agnostics aren’t interested in converting believers into non-believers or vice versa…
Im under no illusions that I can make a “sound” up. My system sounds “different” to my friends, no matter how hard I tell myself they sound the same. Its no better or worse, just different
If you are that skilled, you must have saved yourself a fortune by buying the most basic set up…why would you spend anymore?
Speaking for myself (sorry to jump in), one reason is the pleasure of ownership associated with “nice” equipment. Which may or may not correlate with sound quality but still contributes to enjoyment.
I promised someone earlier to give my impressions on a UpTone EtherRegen I borrowed. I compared it to ethernet cable straight from a regular switch, as well as a regular switch -> fiber media converter -> fiber -> fiber media converter. Using fiber media converters (which I had in place since before) does improve the sound a small step. But the EtherRegen was even better, and took the sound about an equal step forward, mainly by increased clarity and fluidness (its hard to describe sound improvements ).
I might buy one later on, but for now the existing fiber tweak I have in place will have to do (last fiber media converter has a linear high-quality voltage regulator to 3.3V).
"The heart of what makes our switch so unique is use of ACTIVE, HIGH-SPEED, LOW-JITTER DIFFERENTIAL DIGITAL ISOLATOR chips in conjunction with ULTRA-LOW JITTER DIFFERENTIAL RE-CLOCKING FLIP-FLOPS. No other Ethernet switch on the market does this. Implementing this architecture correctly is difficult and costly!
Going from port-to-port on the ‘A’ side of EtherREGEN is already better than most any other switch, but crossing our A ctive D ifferential I solation M oat (“ ADIM ™”)—to its ‘B’ side—brings an unmatched level of Ethernet performance for audio. On the circuit board photos you can see the EtherREGEN’s “moat,” across which sit the differential digital isolators."
I kind of agree with that, way to much focus on tech-mumbo-jumbo in this hobby (well, in many areas actually). But whatever they did at UpTone, their switch does result in a better sound, at least compared to my other switch. Maybe because of less electronic noise, maybe accurate clocks matters, or maybe something else, but that’s beside the point.
Here is a pic of the electronics inside, I like how they call galvanic isolation a “moat”
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
920
Jacques posted a link to Amir’s review of the EtherREGEN a couple of days ago, but maybe folks haven’t followed it. Just in case, here’s his conclusion:
Needless to say, I absolutely cannot recommend the UpTone EtherRegen. It seems to be designed by people who a) don’t understand the architecture of streaming audio and hardware and b) didn’t bother make measurements of said flaws before going to fix them. A problem was imagined, and then supposedly fixed.
Half-way through the test, I start to smell what resembled like overheating electronics. Decades of repairing electronics has sensitized my nose to such things. I get my nose close and realize it is the Ether Regen that is cooking! You could easily small it through the ports. While I still could hold it, it was running quite warm. … Case temp is between 36 and 40 degrees C. I worry how hot the internal components are running and whether the junction max temp is too close for comfort.
Evidently, to the true audiophile, the faint smell of burning electronics enhances the musical experience.
You send out 1’000’000 mails. 5 people respond. That is enough to make a good living for the spammer.
Similar things happen in the audio industry. Magazines live from ads. They are not independent. They keep introducing fancy toys made from “utopium” and “fantasticum”. The mags do not get money, if they write, “sorry gents, I could not hear a difference”. They also have to have every month something that betters the product, they introduced 3 month ago.
2nd problem: Audio is part of the luxury goods industry. People are willing to pay much more, than it is actually worth. Amplifier technology did not really improve over the last 30 years. It just got faster and smaller. But would you pay 25k$/€ for a perfect amplifier which got the size of cigarette package? No. But you do, because it is big and heavy. If you pay 25k$/€, you believe it is exceptional. But probably it is not. It is hard to find out, that a Lotus Elise S is more fun on the racetrack than your pricy Bugatti Veyron.
3rd problem: Audio devices are very often miserably designed. With classic electronics, you can do a lot of tricks. But if you network your devices, you have to have some solid know-how and follow standards. It is not enough just to put an RJ45 plug onto the board.
My conclusion: If you like these little things and they make you happy, buy them. It is like viagra. Some people need it, others don’t.
Indeed! Very many parallels to social media in general.
On a number of threads on a forum such as this you tend to get maybe half a dozen people who latch on to certain topics (such as MQA or the subjects on this particular thread) with overly aggressive and intransigent opinions, and who appear to think they own the thread. They seem to have a compulsion to react to any vaguely positive comment about specific subjects or items (after all, they now own the thread), and appear to gain a sort of community kudos (maybe even status) from other regulars who follow up with equally acerbic comments to egg them on or to belittle the subjects of their ire.
Now of course I may be completely wrong and I am willing to be corrected, but I suspect that most of the people to whom I refer have absolutely no technical qualifications whatsoever to justify their dogmatic opinions. They simply have ears and a modicum of interest (or at least I hope that they do) in reasonably ‘high quality’ sound, just like the rest of us.
Now, I speak as someone who is somewhat sceptical about the effect that routers, switches and ethernet cables can have on sound quality, and I do not personally own any so called ‘audiophile’ routers, switches or ethernet cables. However, I do not respond sarcastically (or at least not very often) to those who genuinely are of the opinion that they do have a significant effect. I guess that I have a relatively open mind and, without any relevant technical qualifications whatsoever (despite a lifetime of working in IT) and without carrying out any appropriate tests, am of the view that it is possible that some routers, switches or ethernet cables can have a subtle impact on sound quality in some systems and in some particular cases. Perhaps the only supporting evidence that I can produce (and of course it is a subjective view that may not be shared by others), to support the fact that digital connections can make a difference relates to a Chord Hugo DAC I used to use in one of my systems. I felt that the DAC sounded better when fed with a SPDIF connection rather than a USB connection. I put this down to a lack of galvanic isolation in the Hugo design.
Despite being somewhat sceptical about the significance of routers, switches and ethernet cables, I would most certainly not claim that all such products are ‘snake oil’ without first listening to them in my own system. Expensive - yes! Ludicrously and possibly almost criminally expensive in many cases - yes! But to label all such products as ‘snake oil’ without any qualifications whatsoever - more than way over the top in my opinion.
One of the reason a ethernet switch made for HiFi sounds better is cleaner power. If your ethernet switch takes 5V input you can test this yourself, just buy a battery holder for 4 AA batteries with matching DC connection (usually 5.5x2.1) and 4 AA batteries and run your switch with this (cost will be around $10 so its a cheap test).
Granted, it will yield a rather subtle improvement in the sound, but at least for my switch it gives a small increase in sound quality. Note that the battery probably won’t run the switch for very long, so this is just for testing purposes and not a long-term solution.
Hehe, that switch is a little to big for that battery pack, you want a small desktop switch for this to work (don’t rack-mounted network gear usually run on 48V?)? Something like this:
Nevertheless, I’ll try my very best…
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