Does Roon care about non-streamers anymore?

No, you’re right. He doesn’t. But he also doesn’t have to opine on what not liking “new music” says about you as a person.

There are two ways to respond. One is, this is the direction we’ve chosen and if you disagree then Roon may not be a good choice for you, and that’s one reason why we offer renewable subscriptions so you can choose to opt out. This is how a mature leader and visionary would respond.

The other is the Steve Jobs way: “you’re holding it wrong” (although even he didn’t call his customers names in public). Steve Jobs could get away with it because he was Steve Jobs and his company was Apple. Roon is no Apple, and Danny is no Steve, for better or worse on both.

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Related: in my experience the COO is typically not focused on future innovation, although of course each company/board decides for itself. That role would fall to the CTO. The COO focuses on operational efficiency, including IT operations, which fall under the CIO.

(Source: I’m a CTO myself.)

Most places I’ve been it’s the other way round. Nominally, CIO works with the business and sets strategy and the CTO implements.
CxO titles and roles are so mixed up it’s unfunny as the COO who was a sales lead concentrates on, guess what? Whereas the strategic CIO who was the Ops manager concentrates on?
Bleh.

Well, as a self-professed dinosaur, I’d like to throw in my 2 cents…

Back in the day (yeah, an aging dinosaur), we discovered music from radio, from friends, from whatever stores were selling, and from TV (remember the Ed Sullivan Show, Dick Clark Show, Shindig!, etc). In truth, we let others tell us what was best and for the most part, we listened.

Those days are gone! OK, I still depend on friends, but I also depend on streaming services and various online forums… what a strange world it’s become. Better or worse? Well, for the artists, I’d say it’s a whole lot worse because they can only stay viable by performing and that is tough. But for all of us music lovers? There’s just so much out there it’s difficult to find what’s best (for you and your ears). But the streaming services AND Roon have made big efforts to try to help and for that, I’m truly grateful.

Fundamentally, this dinosaur is not only a music lover but also a music collector. So I use streaming and online services to find new music, but when I find something I think is amazing… know that I want to listen to it again … and again. I buy it. I don’t want to depend on T or Q to have it, or even be around when I want to listen to it again. So for me, Roon’s ability to help me manage my ever-growing library is exceptional. But so are their efforts to help expose me to music I might not ever hear otherwise.

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This statement is the absolute antithesis of what the Roon Team believes and puts into every Roon release. It demonstrates laziness and a lack of open-mindedness.

Every new artist today builds on the shoulders of giants of the past. The tools are better, the inspiration is better, and the history is better. If you haven’t found better music that’s new, it’s on you. Every generation says the same thing about “today’s music”, and they all end up wrong.

While I too do not care much for today’s pop music, crap music has existed forever. It’s just that history has helped filter it out for you. That’s the laziness I speak of. But it’s the lack of trying is the most offensive to me – that’s the closed-mindedness.

To my mind, this attitude typifies exactly what is both right and wrong about Roon, and why many of us find it so frustrating.

It is good that the developers have a vision, and are pursuing it with passion. However, it is bad that they are so contemptuous of their customers, and so dismissive of what their customers like or want, and this is borne out in the way Roon works. For example, my Roon account shows 49 genres of music in my collection, and yet Opera is not considered a genre even though it probably has better credentials to be a genre than, say, “2 Step British Garage”. I also find this irritating since I have a large opera collection and actually want to see no more than five genres - and only genres of my choosing.

The idea that people who do not seek out the latest hip hop or EDM releases are lazy and stupid - sorry, they lack ''open mindedness" - is not just insulting, it is wrong.

First, contemporary music is fundamentally stale. I often to try to find new music, follow discoveries through Roon, read recommendations on music forums. But music today is doing nothing new. Whenever I listen to contemporary music I am inevitable disappointed. Almost all of it could have been produced at any time in the last 30 years, even the last 50 years. Electronica was new in the early 70s when Kraftwerk did it, and modern takes on electronica have not really progressed since the early 90s. Ditto for EDM, and hip hop, which is painfully stuck in a rut of simple rhythms, simple music and simple lyrics and more about posture than anything else. Bands featuring guitars and drums are still stuck in a time warp from decades ago.

Jazz was the great American musical invention. Nothing like it had been heard in the world before. The same for rock’n’roll in the 50s, electronic, punk and disco in the 70s. These were revolutionary. Nothing as interesting or experimental or progressive is being produced today. Nothing that truly pushes the boundaries. If you think it is, send me a recommendation, I truly want to hear it.

That is why I mostly listen to classical and jazz. It may not be new but it is still interesting, has real intellectual content and is timeless. Hip hop not so much.

But the other aspect of this is the contempt that this attitude shows to the people who - like me - pay a large amount of money for a lifetime subscription, only to have their musical choices pooh poohed as lazy and stupid, and their preferences (I am one of the many who still want folder browsing) rubbished as ignorant.

As I mentioned, this contempt for a large volume of Roon’s customers comes through not just in threads like this but in how Roon operates, in how it fails in some genres, such as classical, and refuses even to recognise some important music, such as opera.

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I will take your word for it but when I rip SACDs for my server, I don’t save the stereo DSFs, let alone the CD tracks.

Roon uses the genre classifications defined by Allmusic - and Opera is considered to be a sub-genre of Classical. And if you don’t like it, you can turn on your own genres defined in your own metadata, and even edit the genre hierarchy to your heart’s desire.

Loving this thread so far guys! I am also so mad at you @Danny for getting cranky after reading thousands of comments complaining that you don’t you don’t care about us customers because you do not implement new features everyday. You need to remember that as customer, we freakin’ own you! So, when I ask for something to be done, it should be done right away because I am king of the world and I matter most. Computers are super easy! I drew a flower on mine yesterday so it should not be that hard. And no, I won’t use other software that does what I want! I am just gonna keep using Roon and keep complaining because Roon is prettiest, and sounds more better. Shhhhh! Thats my secret. Adulting is hard and if I don’t want to compromise with the available options, then I don’t have to to! You got that @Danny?! Waah! Since you are not a human being @Danny, you don’t get to have an opinion and can’t call people dinosaurs! Dinosaurs are big and scary and, like, older than my Grandpa so I am very offended, even though I have no idea about prior conversations you may have had with the OP! Uh oh! I made a fudge dukie. Come over and change me now and then I have some more complaining to do!

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As a happy family of users of Roon, only thing I can take issue with on this whole thread no longer applies to us, we have moved from sub 0.5Mb/s internet to 100Mb/s and suddenly streaming is viable and useful. But previously we too would have stood with the Big Library, No streaming camp, so we think that to dismiss the “I don’t want to (or can’t) stream” users is perhaps a bit rich. We are all different and Roon suits most of us just fine. Thank you Roon, you have helped us to enjoy our music collection.

And where exactly is this said? What I read here is that Roon supports both streamers and non-streamers and the product continues to deliver benefit to all. It is also said that streaming is the future and if we don’t embrace this sometime soon we’ll end up like the dinosaurs.

PS. Welcome to the community, @Simon_Hopkins! :slightly_smiling_face:

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:rofl:

The whole post is hilarious. Needs a level higher than ‘Like’.

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Definitely wins the sarcasm special. Wonder how much more fun he’d be with a couple of shots of bourbon in him…Hilarious…

Roon is doing a wonderful job of making the service better for all versions of use. It is improving all the time. At any point in time their projects maybe aimed at an individual’s interest or not. Add a bit of patience a project will hit your particular interest! Be adventuresome and you may find a feature that opens new doors!!!

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This thread got rather boring and repetitive, but you turned it into gold! Thanks :+1:

done. under your profile click your avatar in the upper right, then your username, then preferences… interface on the side, then pick theme.

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So you are saying that because modern contemporary music does not push boundaries and is not revolutionary it is not worth listening to?

I find that a ridiculous thing to say. And it seems to fit exactly what Danny says about lacking open mindedness and laziness.

Roon with its streaming service integration has definitely helped me find some gems that will stay with me, even if they don’t push boundaries and are not revolutionary.

I have often thought to myself that it is harder to find music that stays with me as I grow older but I am not a teenager anymore and the world isn’t full of as many surprises as it was when I was stepping into the world of adulthood.

I remember looking forward to purchasing CD’s from bands that I followed back in the 80’s and early 90’s, getting them home full of excitement only to think they were sh*t and then take them back for a refund at HMV or Our Price.

There has always been “not so good” music out there. Streaming services definitely help you find the great stuff as I don’t have time to go to vinyl or CD hunting to record fairs and shops. As a teenager I would head up to Groove Records in Soho and spend a morning listening to the latest imports, hand over a good £100 and then get on the train from Paddington to Swindon, get home and spend hours listening to my new music. Did it push boundaries and was it revolutionary, it might have been to me back then but it probably wasn’t. But it defined my teenage years before I lost interest in Rap, Hip Hop and breakdance and went down different avenues of music. Now listening to that stuff fills me with nostalgia and for a while I revel in that before I start looking for something else that peaks my interest.

That being said, I would still like to see more done for large box sets and classical users and @evand brought up many good points in the thread he started.

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That’s excellent - thank you Fernando. :sunglasses:

The trials & tribulations of being a new user here. I had no idea of this feature. So, no major issue for bootleg owners - there is a workaround. Albeit, on that basis there is no reason why anybody can’t just tag those bootleg albums or any missing albums themselves & ‘direct’ Roon to use the metadata.

Thus far (nigh on 2 week user), I set Roon up to use my own metadata. Notwithstanding, there is still much to explore within the settings & preferences available. No doubt over time I’ll make some adjustments as I become more familiar with all the possibilities.

I have tried with some of my albums, where I’m not entirely happy, largely due to no artist picture, to have Roon ‘collect’ the data. So far, I’ve not found it to do a better job than me & even with what I’d consider standard releases such as those on ECM label, it seems not to find them.

To be clear, this is not a complaint, just a finding!

Further, like yourself, I do have many small label artists, so the expectation Roon will find them is similarly small, hence setting Roon in the first instance to use my metadata.

As I continue to use Roon & I’ll get a better grasp of all the features. :smile:

Edit = ‘I’ll get’ (didn’t make sense without those words) :rofl:

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That’s surprising. I have 209 ECM releases, all identified by Roon.

When you add a release to Musicbrainz, it will take a while for your edits to be accepted, and then another while for them to be picked up by Roon. Since I’ve been doing this for a while, my edits are now auto-approved, so the most recent release I entered, March 21st, are already visible in Roon.

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You are missing so much if you do not listen to new jazz and new classical! Those forms continue to grow and branch out in amazing ways, as well as interacting with each other and with musical forms from all over the world. Even though I love my Bach and Bartók, my Miles and Coltrane, what I listen to most has been composed and recorded in the last decade, and Roon-based Qobuz streaming gives me the chance to sample it more effectively than any other means (I still buy a lot of digital downloads and CDs as needed). Maybe I should start a thread or two on new music that breaks new ground… Actually, this reminds me of a feature I’d really like in Roon: the ability to share a stable persistent link to an identified album or track that others could use to either get that item from a streaming service or to print the corresponding metadata so they can obtain it elsewhere.

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I’m thrilled to see Roon’s growing focus on streaming. Even if a listening session starts in my library, it ends streaming something new.

When I was a teenager, the biggest music-listening problem I faced was finding a place in my car to store an ever-expanding collection of alphabetical CD binders. Those were the bad old days, and I do not want to go back. Local music playback is a legacy way of life.

I’m not surprised to read a chorus of voices extolling the virtues of pre-1980 music — I’ve heard it at every event for the twenty years I’ve been in this hobby. The proponents get older every year, but to their credit the goalposts never shift.

What I am encouraged by are the figures you’re citing, @danny, showing that your (no doubt predominately older white) customers are largely embracing newer albums and delivery methods. Even dinosaurs who already own the last album they’ll ever listen to are enjoying a phenomenal platform through which to listen to it.

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