Does Roon care about non-streamers anymore?

Everything the Roon folks do these days is catered to streamers anyway. Those with local content don’t get any love anymore…

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Ridiculous accusation – streaming is critical, it always has been in Roon, but so is collecting (files and streaming “starring”) and every release deals with both (including 1.7).

I have a feeling that you just don’t like new music. It’s OK, not everyone does.

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What features have you added in the last two years that benefit only those that stream? What features have you added in the last two years that benefit only those with local libraries?

The answer is a bunch for the first question and none for the second…

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I don’t like today’s pop music, that’s for sure. But, I use Qobuz all the time to find older music that I do like.

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The way you look at the problem is against what Roon is all about.

Roon is for enjoying music, and from the start, we have felt that discovery is vital. If you are against streaming for some reason, you will always lose out. Why would we want to limit ourselves? It’s a lame existence to isolate yourself from all the great content out there available at such a relatively affordable cost.

That said, we are not going streaming-only. Many features we are releasing benefit both streamers and file-collectors. Supporting local content is critical to filling the holes that streaming services have in their offering. It’s one of our core values as well.

So, let’s look at the initial 1.7 release notes, as that was our last major release.

I’ll just go down the list and break out what helps who.

Feature Applies to Roon users that stream and may or may not have local content Applies to Roon users that have no streaming service hooked up
NRFY :white_check_mark:
RFY :white_check_mark:
Artist Play and Composer Play :white_check_mark:
RoonTag :white_check_mark:
File Tag Credit Improvements :white_check_mark:
File Tag Credits: Expanded format and file tag support :white_check_mark:
Comments Field :white_check_mark:
Search :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Classical ui cleanups :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Sort performances By Popularity :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Multi-level work parts :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Improved Credits Metadata :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Live Radio Directory :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Streaming Optimizations :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Android Audio :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Performance improvements on Roon OS :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Zone Icons :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:

While most features do help both columns of users, some do apply to only 1 column or the other.

There are few of you out there (@evand is another) who are trumpeting that we have forgotten about non-streamers. It couldn’t be further from the truth, and it pains us that you feel this way. That said, if you don’t stream, you are dinosaurs, and Roon will continue to evolve in ways that will alienate you. It’s not just Roon, the world is headed that way.

This statement is the absolute antithesis of what the Roon Team believes and puts into every Roon release. It demonstrates laziness and a lack of open-mindedness.

Every new artist today builds on the shoulders of giants of the past. The tools are better, the inspiration is better, and the history is better. If you haven’t found better music that’s new, it’s on you. Every generation says the same thing about “today’s music”, and they all end up wrong.

While I too do not care much for today’s pop music, crap music has existed forever. It’s just that history has helped filter it out for you. That’s the laziness I speak of. But it’s the lack of trying is the most offensive to me – that’s the closed-mindedness.

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We are in a golden age of new music if people will only go to the trouble of seeking it out. That is in all genres too in my experience.

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There was a thread somewhere here about “which is your favorite decade of music.” Lots of votes for the 60s, the 70s, etc. etc.
I wrote, the best period for music is NOW!
It always has been NOW and it always will be NOW.

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That’s because what you listened to as a teenager stays with you forever.

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If I only had to listen the the SOS that I grew up with I would be out of this hobby lighting fast. I regularly cull my music to get rid of the albums I no longer want to play.

I look forward to each Friday so that I can see what new music has been released. Sampling a few tracks to see which (new to me) artist might of interest. I am always finding new music that grabs my attention.

Every era produces just a much junk as it produces memorable releases.

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…and another view…I was going through a protracted period of many different apps to control the many different pieces of audio equipment and then out of the blue I discovered Roon, by chance!

Suddenly one application was starting to overcome years of control issues which gave me more time to look at and listen to my local collection. Much grooming & listening took place and my occasional mission to Spotify, though frustrated by adverts convinced me that eventually there would be a decent streaming service offering quality as well as variety.

Since integrating Tidal into Roon my mission of discovery has been a revelation. Nearly all of my recent musical passions have been due to Roon, Tidal & the Roon Community. At times the odd technical issue caused frustration but never stopped my search for new music.

For me, Roon has allowed me to pursue a voyage of Music discovery independently of past social gathering which have become far less frequent as my ageing friends are no longer easily accessible.

I agree with opinions expressed here that modern Popular music is less attractive to me than that of my youth. However, I continue to enjoy “my music” and the search in Tidal for that musical gem. After many hours of trial & error my efforts get rewarded, thanks to a piece of computer software called Roon.

The best musical period is Now and Now is my future motivation.

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And yet another perspective:

I have a very, very large music library of local files and I use Roon to manage that library, which Roon does quite well. No problems there.

The problems start whenever Roon Radio starts. In spite of my vast local library Roon Radio does one of two things:

  1. Selects for very, very limited subset of my local files

  2. Selects the vast majority of files or songs from Tidal.

Now these above two things aren’t really that much of sin but then I all too often see items played by Roon Radio from Tidal that in my local library! And to add insult to injury many of these items are “unidentified” by Roon in spite of them being available on Tidal! This really needs to be corrected.

But then again I try to avoid Roon Radio since I have so many local music files to listen to.

Nonetheless I don’t feel that Roon has forgotten about non-streamers, in fact I believe that Roon cares greatly my needs. Here’s a suggestion for @Speed_Racer - use the “Discovery” feature, which works great with one’s local music library.

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I for one thank Roon for providing me with a renewed passion for music and music discovery. Thanks to Roon, and the available streaming services my bounds for music appreciation have skyrocketed.

In terms of support of local libraries, I have a large and awkward library of live music mostly the Grateful Dead which while not handled perfectly by Roon due to incomplete tagging etc, Roon has done a tremendous job of 1) identifying and correlating all it possibly can, and 2) the support teams have been unbelievably responsive to questions and improvements to how Roon handles my library. I have good faith that they will even look at adding db.etree.org as a metadata source for the portions of my library that are associated with an SHNID.

With that said I see Roon fully committed to my local library, and with that my commitment to Roon is in place. I work in IT and deal with various software companies on a daily basis. With limited exceptions I deal with very few software companies that are as responsive as Roon is to my issues, and requested enhancements. Typically the level of commitment from a software company is due to the fact that I am one of their larger customers, but with Roon, I pay the same as every other Joe out there, and they prove at every interaction that they are very interested in me renewing my subscription when it expires.

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@danny

I’m kind of in the same boat as @Speed_Racer

I like older music, much of which I own, and I use Qobuz to fill in my collection with older music (pre-2000) that I don’t own. I will check out to few newer suggestions from time to time, but I don’t think liking what you like is a lazy path. Roon would best served to please both crowds; many users like older music and their numbers are quite prevalent in your membership. If I want to listen to 70s, 80s, and 90s music, that’s a choice, not a character trait. You might want to consider those factors with future upgrades/releases.

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Don’t get me wrong, I love Roon. That is why I bought a lifetime subscription. I just wish local libraries would get some love. All new features are focused on streaming. That won’t even consider a new feature that doesn’t somehow improve the experience for streamers…local libraries be damned.

Only for some “you.” I grew up with 60s folk, pop, as well as some classical and jazz. The vast majority of what I stream today (via Qobuz) or buy (mostly via Bandcamp) was performed in the last few years, much of it composed in the last few years too. Just yesterday I spent > $200 on the Bandcamp “all proceeds to artists” sale. The only older works I got were a boxset of all of Morton Feldman’s piano music, performed and recorded last year. As several other said, if you choose the right current music, it’s in all respects — performance, recording, even composition — at or above the level of the very best rarities of the 50s. Roon gives the the opportunity to explore and listen to this bounty like nothing before.

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And deadbase, bandcamp and many independent record label sites.

Not true since Roon really does try to improve it’s metadata retrieval, which is why I am constantly posting suggestions (hint), as I did above. By the way I call it “metadata retrieval” because Roon Labs never takes ownership for bad or missing metadata since Roon is not a metadata provider. Fair enough but then Roon Labs needs to improve their metadata retrieval. And there are plenty of great suggestions about to do that coming from the Roon community.

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Hmm. Roon has added support for automatically paging through multiple pictures, and for PDFs. Both require that the files be placed in the album folder, hence they don’t work for streamed albums. I have complained about old-school thinking, ignoring streamers.

It isn’t easy satisfying everybody.

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This thought has never crossed my mind, and I don’t see it as being absolutely true either.

I really like how Roon manages my ripped albums on my NAS, adding liner notes and such. It really completes the package of all of those FLAC files that I created several years back of all of my CD’s.

The only real complaint I have with Roon is how I select Qobuz under the “Browse” window to the left, but most of the time, after performing a search for a certain album or artist and I go to play that album, it defaults to that album on Tidal instead. I have to scroll down and select the version under Qobuz.

Other than that, I have no complaints or regrets going with Roon.

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I’m not sure which decade’s music someone listens to is in any way relevant to whether or not Roon’s features are biased towards streaming or local files. I have a growing but relatively moderate library of more than 20k local files and use Tidal extensively. Roon does a truly fantastic job of allowing me to explore all the music I could possibly want (60s - yesterday) or have time to listen to. I don’t use some features (like Roon Radio) most of the time, but for me Roon works flawlessly and I do not feel the need for any improvements to the products. Well, maybe vertical scrolling… :wink:

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That has to be the most ignorant statement I have ever seen from you.

First of all, you and your Roon team do not get to decide what music I like nor do you get to call me lazy because I don’t like modern pop music. I can’t stand Hip Hop/Rap. That is never going to change. I have listened to it since its inception and have yet to embrace it. Every once in a while I will look on what people consider to be the best Hip Hop album and I will lsuten to it. Still nothing after all these years.

I have always embraced Jazz, Soul, Blues, and R&B. My first exposure to music was my to my Mom’s favorite music. That included Elvis Presley and Big Bands. My much older half brothers from my Dad’s first marriage got me into 60’s music as they were teenagers in the 60’s while I was in elementary school. I have a wide range of music I like, own, and listen to but modern pop along with Hip Hop/Rap just don’t get it done for me. Pop songs are just too similar like they are written to a formula.

I do listen and like newly recorded music such as Classical and Jazz.

I have spent a lot of time in Roon using first Tidal and now Qobuz to explore music I like. Most of what I found is older music that I was not exposed to or familiar when I was younger. So that shoots down the idea that I only like music now that I liked when I was young fallacy.

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