Really hope @austinpop gets a response on this. It’s become a taudry topic around what was a reasoned and valuable request.
An audiophile playback program that isn’t agressive on SQ… doesn’t bode well.
Nothing wrong with Roon’s SQ. Chasing the rainbow is a waste of resource and doesn’t bode well. Roon have previously addressed this topic, at length.
2 Likes
Wow, that’s a leap! 
Sorry I thought we were talking about hifi. I may have misunderstood.
I am with you 100% about that and we’re not alone. Although, my description wouldn’t be ‘obtuseness’.
The CEO is the main reason, among others, that I refer to the enterprise as JShiver.
OK, let’s talk about about hifi as you are struggling with analogies.
If half a dozen randomers on the internet suggested you plough $150,000 development dollars into a new feature that claimed to improve sound quality, would you
a) crack on and do it?
Or
b) ask for some verifiable evidence of effect as part of your due diligence before you commit your devs?
3 Likes
Comparing listening to hifi with jumping off a building is not an analogy. Neither is this one, you seem to be missing the point.
Tis not I who struggles with analogies old chap.
Two insulting comments, thanks guys, how about restricting the comments to hifi and not cheap shots?
If the opportunity arose, I might give it a listen, see how it sounds. Sorry to be old fashioned
Can you describe your full setup? Not just the computers, all of the audio gear involved, end to end and how each piece is connected to the next.
1 Like
Hi @brian
Absolutely. Please refer to the system diagram in my recent article here: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/my-quest-for-a-new-dac-part-5-chord-electronics-hugo-m-scaler-hugo-tt-2-r781/
The endpoint (DS-1) is a branded version of the NUC7PJYH with 8GB RAM, running AufioLinux in ramroot mode for the OS. The Roon Core is not shown in the diagram, but is a NUC7i7DNBE also running AL in ramroot. Music storage is a NAS. The Roon Core DB lives on an Optane SSD in the NUC.
Happy to provide more info as needed.
So, in Innuos own words this is an Innuos issue. They use a noisy SSD and they can’t keep the noise from this SSD from affecting things further down the chain. And/or the components further down the chain are sensitive to this noise. To avoid the effects of this bad design some users prefer to use squeezelite software, which is itself flakey.
This is a problem for Innuos to fix. Or the authors of Squeezelite. Or whoever makes the rest of the chain. Or for the user to use a galvanic isolator or whatever. Or change server to one that doesn’t serve up bursts of noise. There is not a problem for Roon to fix. Other users of Roon, with other hardware, do not have this problem. I don’t have the problem. There is nothing to fix for me. I have a Chord HMS and DAVE (a reasonably decent system) and a laptop with SSD and can’t hear the difference when Roon is playing on its own, or Roon is playing and I’m loading a big spreadsheet and thrashing the SSD, memory and CPU.
Please Roon concentrate on fixing genuine issues with your software that your users will benefit from.
1 Like
I don’t want to pile on the OP more and I do think it is a legitimate question for Roon to speak to. Not necessarily to devote a bunch of resources to, but at least to speak to whether RAM playback could improve quality and if Roon’s architecture could ever reasonably support it.
HOWEVER, here is a question for the OP: have you ever done a comparison between a well implemented non-Innuos Roon setup and the Innuos/Roon RAM playback?
I am referring to Jez’s post above, which brings up a point I hadn’t considered, and that is that RAM playback might improve the Innuos setup due to its specific configuration, but have no beneficial impact on a standard Roon setup outside of the Innuos integration. I mean, if Innuos is complaining of a noisy SSD, that seems pretty unique to them. I’ve never heard of such a thing, and it’s hard to believe that RAM is much “quieter.”
Also, have you tried any SoTM USB adapter cards? They put a lot into electrical isolation at the USB endpoint. That might just as easily eliminate this electrical noise and not require such a dramatic re-architecture of Roon.
Roon’s job is to reliably deliver the correct data in a timely fashion. Not to fix issues caused by ropey hardware and flakey software. The fact that squeezelite doesn’t work is squeezelites problem. The fact that Innuos serves noise as well as music is Innuos’ problem. If you’ve got thousands of pounds to spend on a server, pick a quiet one.
They don’t have to put any major resources to anything. But to say there’s nothing wrong with Roon’s SQ is hopeful at best and defensive at worst. One of my earliest posts in the Roon forum was saying that I’d trialled a few programs, was going with Roon for it’s great sound and amazing UX but that Audirvana had better SQ. I had no idea why but was asking the forum if there was anything i could do to get Roon to where Audirvana was sonically.
Since then i’ve trialled direct connected DACs, networks with switches with LPS’s; Nucleus +, Innuos, Allo DigiOne, ISO Regen. You won’t like that i just used my ears only but out of all trials, Roon’s suggested method of networked connection was not the best sounding. So i’m all for someone requesting Roon to investigate an avenue of SQ improvement that isn’t on their roadmap.
There’s nothing that can be done for the vivid imagination.
2 Likes
But what a life it is.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your anecdote, howevely sincerely you believe it, does not meet that criteria.
There’s nothing extraordinary. Simply relative assessment. At present a CD in my Oppo 205 is the best i get. It is my benchmark. The best i can do digitally with the analogue gear kept constant. Until I get Roon sounding (at least) the same then I will keep tinkering. What’s your benchmark? How do you know what you’re chasing?
I have my own subjective criteria, and have never claimed anybody else should be different.
The crucial difference as I have already explained is that if you want Roon, or any commercial entity, to spend time and money on developing your ideas and make a change on your behalf, then you should at least be prepared to offer up in the first place, some evidence that can be substantiated.
Anything else is internet arm-waving.
1 Like